The Role of Fathers in Adult Lives with Dr Jack Hinman

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Yeah, I think the vulnerability is is knowing how to be vulnerable like with your kids at a developmental level. Like that is a pr like that the level of vulnerability is based on the age and the emotional maturity of your child as they get older. Um, I think it's important to to demonstrate what you're feeling. It's okay to to show tears, it's okay to to articulate your frustrated. So this so what you want to do is you want to be able to articulate that at a developmental level. You also want to be also motion regulated, like I mentioned earlier. Role modeling and emotional regulation are two important things. So it's important to like show your tears, but also demonstrate that you're you're you're not being overran by your emotional experience because you want to teach your kids that, hey, I could be vulnerable, but also I'm in control at the same time. I'm in control and I'm sharing that.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Welcome to the podcast ABC's of Parenting Adult Children. Please join us as we discuss parenting adult children and the unique struggles that it comes along with.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Throughout his career, he has worked in a variety of settings, including hospitals, wilderness therapy programs, residential treatment centers, and community mental health. As the founder and executive director of Engage Young Adult Transitions, Jack is committed to helping young adults build healthy independence and create meaningful lives. At Engage, the focus is on providing the structure of support and opportunities necessary for young adults to thrive and find their purpose. Dr. Jack, how are you doing?

SPEAKER_03 2:10

Doing great. It's Monday. I feel great. Got up early this morning. I got my workout in, so I'm leading to the week. Feeling solid. So I'm excited to talk to you, James, connect, to talk about young adults. And just to let you know, really quickly, you kind of gave a professional kind of intro, but man, I am so in to young adults right now. I just moved my adult son who turned 18 into college last week. He's I got an eight-year-old son, I got a six-year-old daughter who's moving into an adulthood. And I I'm I'm living young adults, like professionally and personally. So I'm excited to kind of share my perspective from a personal and professional level today.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

Absolutely. Do me a favor and kind of introduce yourself to the listening audience.

unknown 2:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

Just kind of telling your parenting story, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 3:00

Yeah, definitely. Um, like you mentioned, I'm a licensed clinical psychologist. I grew up in Memphis, Tennessee, and connection has been a really important part of my life. It's been a thread in my professional life, my professional life. I mean, my personal life and professional life. And I moved out west with a couple friends to start college. I fell in love with the mountains. I'm a huge mountain biker. And yeah, like I've been a clinical psychologist for over 20 years. So I've been like actually, my wife this morning was like, Do you realize this week it'll be 27 years being married? And so we're getting up this morning, kind of get going. So I've been married for 27 years. I've got a son who was 18 who started college at the University of Utah and moved him in, and he's blown up my phone about his roommates, and I'm still I'm still so knee deep in being a parent, even as he's in college. And then I have a six-year-old daughter who is a junior who is already talking about college and moving on and that kind of stuff. And so uh yeah, I I live out west because I'm I'm in love with the mountains. I I snowboard, I ski. Um, and so yeah, I like I moved out west after high school and fell in love with the mountains and never turned back since.

SPEAKER_02 4:16

That's awesome. So I think that to today's theme uh is faith, fathers, and forgiveness, navigating the emotional terrain of parenting and adult children. And it's it's good that you are able to view parenthood and the role of being a father uh with your existing children. So you have the professional side of you and you have the personal side of you, and so you'll have a real balanced uh outlook, I think.

SPEAKER_03 4:43

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I think being a clinician, my wife is an educator. She's been a school teacher now, she's in a principal, and so we're definitely in the helping profession. Now that's been very beneficial to us as parents, co-parenting, and so yeah, like, yeah, it's it's an exciting like time in my life, professionally and personally, right now.

SPEAKER_02 5:05

Right. So our listening audience is parents of adult children between the ages of 18 and 30, right? So this will this will be right up their alley. So let's look at let's look at faith as a framework for parenting. How has your faith shaped your approach to parenting adult children?

SPEAKER_03 5:20

Yeah, like I think it's important to have anchors like in your life, in a sense, and and having like faith and like in love, faith in like in your like in your spouse, and kind of the powers above you, in a sense. And it's really important to create a space for your for your kids to to be open to the concept of faith and spirituality in their own personal development. And I always find it very fascinating this role between your security, your uh sense of security in your relationship to your children creates a certain space to explore faith and explore spirituality and not feel threatened as a parent. And so my wife and I have been really, really cognizant about the idea of like allowing space to whatever that path looks like. It could be traditional Christianity, it could be like it could be more of a non-traditional environment, it could be a Buddhist perspective or a Hindu perspective, and it's creating that space for our kids to be able to figure out who they are because your spirituality, your faith is a big part of your identity. And I think when parents kind of get really rigid and get very forceful, it goes back to their security in their relationship with their child. So when you feel like you have a secure relationship with your kid, you're gonna allow them to explore spirituality in your like whatever perspective it takes. And so you're not threatened by that that kind of a relationship in your home. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

Okay. So the role of fathers in adult children's lives, what unique emotional or spiritual roles do fathers play once their children reach adulthood? Um, being a role model.

SPEAKER_03 7:02

Like I think it's so important to be that role model in that with the way you manage relationships of your spouse. Like your kids are directly watching you how you treat your wife. Do you treat her with the respect? Do you see her as an equal in your home? Do you see her as a like, and so um we've been really, really intentional. I mean, we've had the that the the luxury and we were blessed to be very intentional about the progression of my professional development, my wife's professional development, supporting her role as the mom and also her as a professional, and in having that play out in our home. And so, yeah, I think the thing is like if you want to be like when it comes when it comes to the two this number two parenting skills is be what you want your kids to be, show up as a parent, and be emotionally regulated. Those are two important skills. And so, and it's hard work. I think a lot of parents want this certain outcome of their child, but they're not willing to like do the heavy lifting. It's heavy lifting being a parent. It means doing the right thing all the time. Not saying we don't make mistakes. And I think for a majority of a good parent, you want to be in that, you want to be in the win column or in the loss column in a sense. But it's hard. Like it's hard to make those decisions. Your kids are always watching you. And so, yeah, it starts off just being the role model in your home.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

How can fathers model vul vulnerability and emotional intelligence without compromising leadership?

SPEAKER_03 8:43

Yeah, gosh, that's great. I love you're asking me as a as a as a dad, as a I I almost call myself a young man, but I'm not. I'm in a middle-aged man. Yeah, I think the vulnerability is is knowing how to be vulnerable like with your kids at a developmental level. Like that is a like that the level of vulnerability is based on the age and the emotional maturity of your child as they get older. Um, I think it's important to demonstrate what you're feeling. It's okay to to show tears, it's okay to to articulate your frustrated. So this, so what you want to do is you want to be able to articulate that at a developmental level. You also want to be also emotionally regulated, like I mentioned earlier. Role modeling and emotional regulation are two important things. So it's important to like show your tears, but also demonstrate that you're you're you're not being overran by your emotional experience because you want to teach your kids that, hey, I could be bornable, but also I'm in control at the same time. I'm in control and I'm sharing that. And it goes over like, and also, too, I think it back to the developmental piece is that you do want to show your kids that it's okay to feel what you're feeling, like, um, and also be able to manage it effectively. Because once again, that that role modeling piece. And so you know, I think being vulnerable in like your struggles, but do to but the key, the vulnerability piece is not you don't get to the level of ever and vulnerability that you create insecurity in your home. So, for example, like we'll say you're having a lot of trouble at work and you don't know like if you're gonna have your job tomorrow. That's not the level of vulnerability you want to show up to your kid. So you're like, hey, things are rough, challenging, but I'm gonna get through it. I'm gonna go like and and because you because your kids are looking for you to create a secure base. As I'm talking, I'm coming from an attachment style kind of a therapeutic approach and how to like how to raise kids. So we always want to maintain a secure base, be vulnerable without creating insecurity for your kids. And so I think what times parents feel like they have to tell their kid everything. That's inappropriate. And so you want to be you want to demonstrate it's okay to be vulnerable and you're gonna be okay at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

Gotcha. Very good. I want to share your website before we get too too far off into this. Engage young adult uh transitions, engage transitions, it's uh engagelifenow.com. That's common spelling. Engagelifenow.com. You want to speak a little bit to this uh website?

SPEAKER_03 11:21

Yeah, this is this is my I'm the founder. I also do admissions for engage. So a lot of people don't know what transitional programming is or transitional treatment. So we have young adults that maybe are stepping down from like a short-term like program from a hospital, and so they need ongoing clinical, like clinical support and clinical mentoring while they're living their lives. So we provide individual therapy, family therapy, group therapy, prior to psychiatry, coaching, mentoring, academic academic support, job support. So our clients are receiving a robust level of clinical support while they're living their lives. We're residential. So most all of our clients come across the country, like New York, Texas, even out, like even internationally. And so we're providing, we're helping our clients to move forward in their life. They're not they're not putting their life on pause when they come to us. We're helping them move forward. So a lot of people kind of uh use the term failure to launch. That's a term that we use because it really like kind of invalidates the process and it minimizes what's really going on. But these are clients that are really stuck like from their mental health standpoint, notable depression, anxiety, executive function, and avoidance. So that's where we're there to provide support to these young adults from 17 to 27.

SPEAKER_02 12:44

So at what point would parents realize that they need this kind of support? I know you don't like to use the word failure to launch, so because that does kind of have a negative connotation. What are some of the signs or or at what point at what point in the transition like you've got toddlers, you got young you got kids, you got preteens, you got teenagers, you know, there's a whole stepping, you know, progression there. So what at what point in the progression would parents possibly need this?

SPEAKER_03 13:26

Yeah, I think you uh I guess I mentioned about developmental piece, where your adult child from like 18 to mid-20s is now starting to become delayed in meeting typical developmental milestones in a sense where they're just not moving into independence at an age appropriate level. They're not d demonstrating the executive functioning, they're not demonstrating maybe the self-care, they're not like they are having trouble maintaining or getting a job. Uh, they continue to really not able to go to school, like able to have the ability to go to college or school or trade school in a sense. A lot of our young adults are just are debilitated by their anxiety. Uh, they just uh are really having a lot of fear to move forward in their life. Uh and and so they're like and they've gone through most of our clients that find us and they do come to us have been through failure, lots of rounds of outpatient therapy. They've been to maybe they've been hospitalized, they've been to short-term programs, and it's not working. So we're here to provide a very comprehensive level of support to help build the skill set and the confidence to move forward into adulthood. And so parents um usually call me when they're when their adult child where their peers have already moved on and they're delayed and they're just literally at home and being stuck.

SPEAKER_02 14:54

So if you have a 40-year-old son that's in the basement playing video games all day, that's that's your sign, right?

SPEAKER_03 14:59

Yeah, that's pretty extreme. And unfortunately, you're seeing and hearing more and more about that. Like, and the term emerging adulthood came in the 90s, but it really very much applies today from like 18 to 30. But now we're starting to see that go beyond 30 in a sense. Um, yeah, due to the due to the post-pandemic, due to social media and the cell phone, also the way we like utilize the term anxiety and trauma and addiction is also impacting this process. There's a lot of multiple cultural and economic variables. I mean, let's just be honest with each other. It's a lot more expensive for my like I mean, literally, I was like flabbergasted how much it's costing me to help support my son in college that has a really nice scholarship to a school in the state of Utah that I live in. So I'm getting state tuition like like the cost of being in-state. And it's still so expensive. It's really difficult to launch economically. We have to take that in a variable system. Sure. And it's a social piece. So it's a different, it's a different landscape, James and you and I. I'm 51. And so when I was 18, I just turned 18 and I just left the nest. It's just how it is. It's not like that anymore these days.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

Right. Yeah, it's expensive to live, period. Any way you, any way you shape it or look at it, it's uh very expensive. And a lot of times, young adults uh do launch out of the nest. They do go, they go to junior college, they go to trade school, or whatever it is they do. They rent an apartment or they they'll rent a house and they'll have multiple roommates, you know, to share in the cost, and and it's a huge step to, you know, you and I, we've been adulting for a while now, and so it's kind of second nature to us, and we know what to do. We understand budgeting, we understand the importance of paying the bills and the light bill and the mortgage and you know, whatever. And so, you know, I remember when I was in my twenties, I was a dumpster fire, you know. I I I was so I was so dead set on becoming an adult. Be I wanted to be my own man. I wanted to pull myself up by my bootstraps. And Lord, I had no clue what my parents really did for me until I got out on my own and I had to figure out where my next meal was coming from or where I was gonna stay, and you know, all this stuff. And I was like, wow, you know, it was a it was a real shock to the system to realize that you know, when you're in the nest, a lot of things are provided for you that you just kind of take for granted. And so when you when you do leave and you get out into the real world, life kind of smacks you around a little bit, right?

SPEAKER_03 17:38

Yeah, and that's part of part of the process, and that's part of where we grow. Like through the challenges, is that that's where we actually grow. We have to have this like the thing is there's content knowledge of being a young adult, but there's the experiential part that that's where the real growing occurs. You cannot learn unless you do it on your own. And the thing is that a lot of parents need to realize is that they need to start building the runway of your child to be an adult early on. That's a really long runway. And that runway is longer now than it was when you and I were an adult. And I've seen too many times parents do too many things for their kids, pull their kids out of their emotional experience, allow their kids to challenge, like feel challenged as a five-year-old, and they don't do it as a 12-year-old. And then all of a sudden, when their kid is 24 years old, like smoking weed and playing Call of Duty in their basement, and all of a sudden the parents reach their, like they just reach their max, and they go from one extreme to the extreme, and then it's like, and they're like, You gotta get out of the house now, we're gonna kick you to the curb. And they're like, why like and they can they kind of like they act confused, like they don't know what's going on, like, but you've you've created this, you've built this system where your kid is like is relying on you and doesn't have the skill set. So all of a sudden, parents have to realize like, yeah, your kid, your 24-year-old needs to get from point A to point B, but let's create a plan to get you there. I mean, there's people like me, there's phenomenal parent coaches that know how to coach parents how to get from point point A to point B who don't maybe don't need a level of care for me or cannot afford my level of care because unfortunately, a lot of insurance only covers a small portion of this. But the problem is start thinking about the end in mind when you have a young child. Like think about all the steps you need to take. And it's so funny how parents like get mad because oh, they all of a sudden this can't do it. You didn't help them develop the skills. It's on you.

SPEAKER_02 19:43

Yeah, it doesn't happen through osmosis. I remember I remember I remember as a parent. Yeah, you're fine. Uh I remember as a parent, my attitude was was okay, so from zero to eighteen, I've got to raise these kids, I've got to help get them educated, I've got to put a roof over their head, buy them school clothes, whole nine yards. But when they turn 18, I'm washing my hands of them and they're on their own. And I was like, oops. That was a wake-up call for me as a parent because guess what? Parenting doesn't stop when they're 18, it keeps going. And uh you, your parent-child relationship may not be there anymore, and you might be more of a support person and more of a mentor. Uh you're you do transition, you know, as they're transitioning into adulthood, you're transitioning as a parent. And it's a parallel track that you as much as possible you need to kind of follow along as they're doing that. And uh uh so yeah, it's uh stuff. So what advice would you give to fathers who feel disconnected or unsure of their place in adult children's lives?

SPEAKER_03 20:49

Yeah, I think the thing is that um it's never too late. Like where you might have that oh kind of crap moment when they're 18 and not have the relationship that you wish you had with your kids, your adult children at that time. And the key is is is it's like you it's never too late to show up. And you can it like you said, you you really don't ever stop parenting an adult child. It is like you said, it looks different. You're moving more of a consultant, you're moving more of an advisor role there when they are ready for you in a sense. And the thing is, it's like where, yeah, they might be an adult child, but it's still on you as a as a as a parent to really kind of navigate that connection. Um and like uh Dan Siegel, who is a phenomenal clinician, wrote an awesome book called The Power Showing Up. This the key is just show up, like like this whole idea of like, oh, division of labor, the mom works at home, and I go off the work, and I like I let mom take care of the parenting, and I'm just gonna be bringing the bacon home. That just doesn't work. Like, that's just not a reality. And dads get really angry when they try to guide their their adult kid when they didn't even have a like they don't have a well-in-tacked relationship. The key is that we first off need to realize even when they're like 10 years old, we can't control a 10-year-old. We definitely can't control an 18-year-old, but we all we have is influence, the power of influence. So how do you gain influence over a somebody in a sense? And positive influence is by your relationship. And so the nature of your relationship and the quality of your relationship, and also the reality too is that as a dad, you're gonna be healthier and happier when you feel connected to your kids. So it's even self-serving. If you want to have a if you want to feel happy, like, because in the reality is we when we feel connected, we're we are motivated. So you being connected to your kids is gonna help you show up better in your job. You're gonna be more motivated to show up. You're gonna be more motivated to show up in your work. So the key is being around, being a dad, like helping out in the kitchen, do your part. Like uh like be the man that you want your kids to represent. Also, too, like this whole thing about daddy issues is so true. Like it's it's it's such a pejorative, like crappy, trashy term, but it's so true where like where the reality is that be the man that you want your daughter to marry and be that person in your house. And you're and you're because it's so it's so it's so true, it's so classic, but with daughters, strong, like strong, strong fathers raise strong daughters. And so the it there's such a direct connection between like the like how close your daughter feels to you is how secure she's gonna be, and and how she's not gonna seek that out in unhealthy ways. Like it's it's not easy. And it's something that you have to do 24-7 is showing up.

SPEAKER_02 24:01

So I think that that ties back to uh the importance of uh emotional intelligence and dads need to, or fathers need to be aware of what's going on inside them, you know, why they're reacting the way they're reacting or not reacting the way they should react. But they need to be emotionally present in the their children's lives, you know. And I remember I was a child of the 70s and 80s, and you know, my dad, both my parents worked, but my dad, you know, was a breadwinner, and you always heard this, you know, mom would always say, you know, dad's coming home, he's been had a hard day work, and and so, you know, fly under the radar, don't don't poke the bear, kind of leave him alone, let him relax, you know. And so you have this picture of the man coming home and and uh sitting in the recliner, you know, like a Archiebunker sort of thing, you know, where he's got the remote to the TV in one hand and a beer in the other, and and uh so you just kind of left him alone and and he wasn't really present, you know. It's it just in the 70s and 80s, you know, dads were you know, were the men don't cry and all these stereotypical things that, you know, generational curses that we have to we had to overcome when we became fathers or when I became a father, right? And uh so yeah, uh dads need to there's more to putting a roof over somebody's head and food and clothes, and you know, that's the physical part of you know being a father, but there's also the emotional piece where you want your kids to see you engaged in what they're doing and be be uh interested in what the what the child is doing. Does that make sense? 100%.

SPEAKER_03 25:41

And it might be hard at first to do that, and it gets easier and it gets more instinctual and it gets enjoyable. And the reality is that fills your cup. Like when you're attuned on what's going back to attachment uh theory and attachment direction and therapy here, when you're feeling attuned, when you're feeling co-regulated, like you're like you're co-regulating with your child, you're gonna feel like energized. It will fill your bucket. And I think most ads feel like, oh yeah, I need my time to chill out and decompress. But do that with your child. And like I said, it might not be instinctual and might not feel normal, and you might not have any role modeling in that from your from your own parents. But after a while, and it might, you might have to be, and also too, at first, when you're learning a skill or learning how to play the piano or play tennis, whatever, it feels odd. Like you have to put your like you have to be really mindful about where your finger placements are, the same way with showing up. And so the key is like you have to be intentional, it's gonna feel awkward, but after a while, it's gonna feel more organic, it's gonna feel more natural, and it'll become, and then you'll start realizing that you're happier. And then when you're happy, you're gonna feel more motivated at work, you're gonna be more successful in your job, you're gonna feel more successful and you feel more connected to your spouse, you're gonna have this kind of like ongoing like effect in your house. And in the reality is that, and then like, and also too, I think parents or dads kind of give up when they don't get that like in like that short return and putting that investment in their child. It takes time, takes a long time to build those connections, especially if you're showing up later, late to the game as a stepdad, or you've been you're in the military and you've traveled a lot, and now you're retired and you're now like in the house, and mom's like, what's going on here? And so, so the thing is it's being intentional and also too, where going back to the emotional piece is that I think the thing is that being emotionally regulated and slow, slow down, slow down. It's so cliche, but just listen. Like, like, I'll give you an example. On Friday night, my 18-year-old son drove home from college. He just walks in the door and just breaks down. Like he just bawls, he's bawling. And I can I can start crying right now, thinking about it. And he's just talking about how hard it is. He doesn't know anybody, he feels lonely. He's dealing with his roommates and dealing with school. I mean, it's just everything at once, and he's just bawling. And my neck, my my initial instinct is to like try to make it better. And then I slow, then my wife and I just slow down and just let him let him bawl, let him cry, let him like talk about it and work through it. And we just let him be in that space. And then this morning, he gets up at 4:30 in the morning, gets in his car to drive to be at class at 10:30 this today without even batting an eye and feeling excited. So we don't have to fix it. We just want to be there and listen and let and and and give them the confidence that they can work through these challenging things. So um, yeah, listening, pausing is probably one of the best skills you can have as a dad.

SPEAKER_02 29:04

Right. That's good. So, uh, what does forgiveness look like between parent and adult child, especially when past wounds run deep?

SPEAKER_03 29:12

Yeah, past wounds, that's resentment. And resentments build up over time, and then they really get in the way of like what's really going on. And so it's always to be very mindful about how you're collecting resentments towards like your children or your spouse, and how resentments cloud current issues. So it's always, I mean, it's just and this is where like working through it with your kid, also like family therapy is very effective when you've got some really deep wounds that are really hard to navigate independently. And that's why a good marriage and family therapist is a good person involved here. And so the key is for for you to be aware of like how one issue can affect another issue in a sense. Yeah, like I think the thing is where like I remember, like I'll give you an example. When my kids were little and they would do something that got them in trouble in the evening. It's like a like a kind of a big thing for being maybe a seven-year-old or eight-year-old. And and we would we would consequence them and like, oh yeah, so tomorrow you're gonna lose maybe certain time, or this is what's gonna happen, the consequence. And then my kid is super, super upset. I'm also really frustrated. So it's key back to emotional regulation. Regulate yourself, being self-aware of what's going on. And the thing is, like, no matter what, my no matter how upset we were, I always hug my kids good and say, Hey, I love you. And tomorrow, you're grounded. I love you, and you're grounded. And if the thing is that's so damaging to child, to children in our development, even in current relationships, is how we weaponize our relationship. How we weaponize love is the way to manipulate children or manipulate our spouses or our like our partners. And the key is it's like love is undying, it never stops while you hold boundaries. Like, hey, you're still grounded, and goodnight, give me a hug, and I love you, and I'll see you tomorrow, like tomorrow morning. And so the key is parents get pissed off or upset, and they'll they'll like they'll stonewall their kids, they'll stonewall their spouses, and they'll remove, like they will, they were leveraged to relationship or remove the relationship to try provide a consequence. That is damaging to a child's development. It's also damaging to adult relationships. Yeah, John Gottman, phenomenal marriage and family therapist that really talks about kind of the four horsemen in relationships. And these apply to marriages, they apply to like your working, working relationship with your children and stonewalling. And so many people feel like like being quiet or I'm gonna distant myself is actually like they in their brains, they're thinking, like, oh, I'm regulating myself, I'm keeping myself calm. No, no, you are intentionally removing the relationship to actually do a strike, striking out on that person. It might not be like a like a verbal aggression or physical aggression, but it's very damaging. Like people just don't realize withdrawing yourself, how damaging is that to that child, how manipulative is you as a parent.

SPEAKER_02 32:23

Can you speak to the healing power of naming pain and inviting dialogue?

SPEAKER_03 32:28

Yeah, like labeling it, just saying like it makes it valid. The the number one way to regulate your how you're feeling is self-validation. And I'm talking about what's validate the valid. Like we're talking what you're feeling is always valid, James, but maybe how you're responding to it, how you're acting, how to utilize it, it's not a valid response. But naming like is half the battle. So, for example, from a neuro, like a neurological standpoint, where, hey, right now I'm feeling very frustrated. So you are labeling that, which you're actually using the more higher part of your brain, your frontal lobe. When you're activating your frontal lobe and less and less of your lumbic system is when you're actually more regulated and you're in a wiser space. So just labeling it makes it you're self-validating, you're regulating yourself, and you're using a higher part of your brain.

SPEAKER_02 33:23

What generational habits or beliefs have you had to unlearn in order to parent differently?

SPEAKER_03 33:28

Yeah, like the pendulum, the pendulum swinging and parenting. Because like you mentioned, your parent, like I'm I'm 51, so I was in the 70s and 80s and kind of wrapped my parents. I turned 18 when I was like uh 93, 92. So I was in the 70s, 80s parenting. And so it was like where we're there wasn't the concept of really mental health. There wasn't really discussion of anxiety, there wasn't discussion of trauma, there wasn't discussion of neurodiversity in that space. And so like we grew out of that. Now we're overcompensating for our parents. We're going from one end of the extreme to the other extreme. So right now is that we overlabel or pathological make anxiety pathological, over we over over label trauma, we over label addiction. And what happens is there's this concept creak that occurs where we make we make normal anxiety pathological, something wrong. And as parents, we don't want to allow our kids to feel anxious. And I mean, of course, as a clinician, there's definitely clinical, diagnosable clinical anxiety that's very debilitating, but anxiety is part of life. If you don't feel anxiety, you're not growing. And we have to grow in a sense. So I think the thing is how like teaching parents about what's normal anxiety, what's what's maybe clinical anxiety, and and knowing helping parents kind of work through that process. So, so for example, like, and there's a phenomenal book that every parent needs to read, and every person who's working with young people, it's called The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Hay. It captures exactly what's happening right now on the concept of it's called the anxious generation for for a purpose. And so what happens is that any struggle, our parent our parents jump in the way and we don't allow our kids to work through it. And we need to do it when they're younger. So, as I talk about the runway for it, being an adult hits a lot longer, but it starts when they're younger. And so teaching our kids that anxiety is okay, it's part of normal development. That's good.

SPEAKER_02 35:36

So, um, how do we create space for adult children to grow without repeating cycles of control or silence?

SPEAKER_03 35:42

Yeah, like I think where we want to control our kids because we don't trust them. And I think a lot of times it's really important to reflect on you as a parent why I want to control my kid. And it's and it really, and I'm a like I said, I've talked about attachment a few times, but understanding our attachment style, understanding, are we it's as a parent, are we an insecure attachment style parent? Are we a preoccupied attachment style parent, disorganized? And the key is digging deep into your own attachment style is going to give you the roadmap of why you should how you show up as a parent. So insecure parents, insecurely attached parents, that means their own attachment style shows up in parenting when they're and so they become very overcontrolled. So what happens is even like it's really phenomenal, like insecure therapists show up in wanting to control the client. They also have less, they have like they're less hopeful for their clients, too. So being aware and doing your own personal work to be more of a secure individual is gonna allow your kids to move freely into that space and be less controlling. So I think it's being aware of your own stuff, how it shows up from the controlling pattern.

SPEAKER_02 36:53

Okay. What does speaking life into our children look like in this stage of parenting? Is it speaking life? Yeah, speaking life into our children.

SPEAKER_03 37:05

Yeah, like do you mind sharing like I'm that's a that's a that's a new term to me. I'm totally curious what like what that comes from, what that means. Speaking life.

SPEAKER_02 37:14

That's a good question. I don't know. I'm not sure the I'm not sure the context. Uh speaking life into our children. I don't I can roll it to maybe it's speaking positivity. Maybe you're sp speaking positive thoughts and and vibes into your instead of tearing somebody down, building them up. Does it does that make sense?

SPEAKER_03 37:36

Yeah, yeah. And it breaks my heart when I see that. Like it breaks my heart like seeing uh a kid tore down, because I know that that kid is in pain, that means that parents in pain too. And so like when we don't organically want to speak highly of somebody else, is this a reflection of ourselves fully? And the thing is that like so speaking, part of that is where we want to be be speaking, life means to me, where we want to be able to like show with resilience and with optimism about getting through the challenges of life and role modeling that. And so, like, starting engage was a new adventure for me. I never started my own business, and it was a really cool experience to see how my family rallied around me. Like, Jack, like you could do this. They were they were excited about, they were extremely stoked for me. They were like my biggest cheerleaders. Like when we started this business, it was like the summer of Engage. We didn't go on a summer vacation, my kids were mowing the lawn. They were my whole family's part of this process. And the thing is, like me showing them as a as a dad of how I'm navigating how life is and challenging a life will also reflect back to my kids. So, for example, going like right now, I'm so deep into young adult stuff right now. My son, who's in college, was struggling with his roommates. He's got roommates that are showing up drunk and having loud sex in his dorm. And he's like, that's he does, that's blowing his mind right now. And he made a comment, which I thought was like, you know what, dad? I feel very confident about showing up to class and like doing my like all the like doing college from an academic standpoint. But dad, I have no confidence how to deal with a drunk roommate. And I'm like, okay, let's lean into this, let's do it. And and get him to walk through it and in and like utilizing what he can influence, what he can control, and being optimistic. Because I like I think a natural tendency of parents, like, okay, let's call up the school and let's move you out of that dorm and let's find the RA and let's like like kind of want to want to control and do it for him. And I'm like, okay, uh like, hey, bro, like this is your this is your time right now to show up. This is your time. This is like this is why you're in college right now to learn how to deal with a drunk roommate. Yeah, it's to learn economics, but also learn about dealing with drunk roommates because you're gonna need this skill. And so it was great. It was a great, great conversation my wife and I had with him. We got him on the speaker phone, and we really kind of we the the the guidance we gave him was like lean into that relationship, get to know your roommates, get to know who they are, and by that you might have some degree of influence what happens in your dorm. And by doing so, now there's a positive outcome, and he's getting along with his roommates, they're not showing they're showing up differently now. And so, like, this is what he's learning. And so letting him to have that experience is such a good part, like such a part of his own development.

SPEAKER_02 40:38

How do we deal with conflict?

SPEAKER_03 40:39

That's a part of everyday life. 100%. And and it's the and I think there's a reality, like a lot of young people don't know how. You think about they're learning, so James, they're learning their like our our kids, this generation is learning how to manage relationships through online relationships. And it's such a distorted reality about how real life relationships like like are happening. So if you think about online relationships, the like the barrier of entry to an online relationship is nothing. You don't have to, you don't even have to be a certain gender or certain age or skill set to show up to a group online. But also, too, the flip side of that is that the barrier of exit to online relationships are very low. People can kick you out, people can ghost you if you say the wrong thing. And so there's this kind of idea that we label people as toxic so quickly in the reality, these kids don't know how to manage to like conflict. That is bail. The term ghosting came around for a reason. I'm just gonna ghost you when you do something that upsets me or say something that I don't like. I'm gonna ghost you. So our kids are not learning to work through conflict and developing the skills and the emotional resiliency to do that. And so they're they're they're taking the on their online life and then using the same rules to apply their real life and it's not working, they're disconnected, they don't have real relationships, and that's why there's this crisis and connection around these things.

SPEAKER_02 42:12

Yeah, very good. I think I don't know, sometimes I think social media is more damaging than it is good.

SPEAKER_03 42:18

Oh, 100%. Definitely. Like it's proof. When the iPhone 4 came out, do you know what was different about the iPhone 4? It had a forward-facing camera. Once Apple made the forward-facing camera, the selfie was designed, which really sped up social media, and then that's when we saw that a tremendous development. So we're starting to see people who are born from 1996 on are neurologically different. Their brains are wired differently. Social media is definitely affecting our neurology and our psychology. Yeah, that forward-facing camera, it's pretty phenomenal when you can start looking at research with the forward-facing camera.

SPEAKER_02 43:00

That's interesting. Yeah, and and you know, people, especially the young younger generations. I just recently got into TikTok, right? I I I was like this with TikTok for the longest time because I just didn't like it for many reasons. Personal, spiritual, emotional, technological standpoint. But I had I had I have uh podcasting friends of mine that told me that if you want to if you want to increase your viewability, you need to get on TikTok and you need to upload some some one-minute reels because that's what people love to consume. They love to sit there on their phones and just scroll from one reel to the next. You know, and I and I think it's d definitely helped give me some some exposure that for my podcast that I want it want to to get. It's all part of marketing and advertisement and all that stuff. But yeah, people confuse social media interactions with real life. And it's like that's so far from the truth, it's not even funny. You know, 'cause people People, especially young people, they you don't hear about their addictions. You don't hear about the worst part of their day. You don't hear about, you know, when they hit rock bottom. You hear you hear about all the fun stuff. You hear about, you know, and and adults are guilty of this too. You know, they're going on vacation, they're winning the lottery, they bought a new car, bought a new house. You hear all about all the highlights of people's lives, but you don't you don't hear where the rubber meets the road. You don't hear about the reality of things, right? And so it provides a false persona for people, I guess you could say.

SPEAKER_03 44:36

Yeah, and I could take it as another level to that. Now we're starting to see the utilization of AI, and there's there's AI companions that even colleges are starting, starting to utilize. Like they're like, okay, here, here's here's Jimmy, your AI companion that you're gonna get when you're at college, and you can go and talk to Jimmy, the the AI companion, and he'll be your friend. And reality is that like it takes you're not developing skills how to manage a companion. And so, yeah, like it's just gonna be a whole nother level when it comes to utilization of AI and like getting connection through AI and the damages of that as well, too. So, yeah, it's crazy out there. It is crazy.

SPEAKER_02 45:18

When I heard that, I was like, what? Who it's like I have I would have no desire to talk to a computer. You know, it's like because that's what you're talking to.

SPEAKER_03 45:27

And I think I think it I think AI is phenomenal, and I think AI can be very, very helpful to people who uh really lack the skill set and the confidence to interact in maybe in a real exchange. For example, they can be created prompt and say, like, hey, I'm gonna I'm gonna go talk to my roommate about leaving, like he leaves all his dishes out in my apartment. I don't know how to to approach him in a way that's gonna, he's gonna maybe more likely to clean up his dishes. Can you give me some help? So that's where AI could be very helpful. It could be, it could be a coach in your pocket to maybe how to like approach a professor or how to how to be diplomatic, how to deal with situations. I think that could be a really good companion, but not be a replacement for connection and companionship.

SPEAKER_02 46:16

Right. I like to use AI for research. I use I use AI a lot in uh getting ready for podcasts and stuff.

SPEAKER_03 46:23

Yeah, so analyzing lots of data, which is super helpful.

SPEAKER_02 46:28

Yeah. Summarizing. Yep. So what daily or weekly habits help you stay emotionally present and spiritually attuned as a parent?

SPEAKER_03 46:37

I think the thing is that um where what's gonna help me be regulated emotionally? Once again, I think I work with lots of parents of like, and I'll get on a call with them and they're regulated. And they'll for the most part, they know how to show up effectively. So the key is that for one thing, there's not one single habit that's gonna help you show up effectively as a parent. So for me, it starts uh early in the morning. Working out in the morning, it's be intentional about my nutrition, um, getting the like exercise to help me get re-regulated, getting the proper nutrition that's gonna help me show up with the right like fuel and to show up as a parent. I think the thing is is like be intentional in your home. Create habits. It's really, really uh cheesy, but so true. Like, like consistent family dinners are super helpful. Like be intentional, set it early, like in your home. Set those patterns early. So the key is when your kids are become teenagers, it's just something part of their normal culture in a sense. Make an intention to connect with your kid daily, seven days a week. And and so like that means like when they are like when they're when you're at home, like like be there to check in with their day and make that habit. Like, don't show up when when the crap's hitting the fan with your kid. Show up so they're ready for you to show to be when things are challenging. Once again, are you putting deposits in your bank account with your kids? Because you're gonna have to make withdrawals. And so the thing is showing up every day, even little moments, and being intentional. So, like, don't ask them like yes or no questions about their day. So tell me, like, so tell me about your day. That's an open-ended question. Not being like, oh, do you have a good day? You have a good day? Oh, yeah, uh, it was okay. Like teenagers are it's okay, and then doesn't move on. Like, tell me about your day. Tell me about it. And then be like being like practice those skills so your kids you like be around so there'll be moments cutting the stage for when they will come to you about certain things that are going on in life that are challenging. And this whole idea of like, I saw a social media post that really made me frustrated where it made a comment like, you have no influence over your kids who become teenagers. Yeah, that's true. If you didn't show up as a parent when they're little, yeah, you have no control now. But the key is setting that stage. And then the reality is that you need to be even more as a parent when they're a teenager. Like, there's this whole argument of like parents like not being home or like going to work when their kids are teenagers. Sometimes having like dads or moms be in the home is even more important when they're teenagers. Like, that's where you need to lean on your influence the most as a teenager when they're teenagers.

SPEAKER_02 49:29

So, what encouragement would you offer to parents who feel like they've lost their adult children?

SPEAKER_03 49:34

It's never too late, like I mentioned earlier. And it's it's gonna take some work. It's gonna take some heavy lifting to turn that around. So, first, are you are you just physically present that you gotta be there? Like you got to be physically present and you gotta be consistent. And now, if you weren't to, if you didn't have that connection as they're now they're teenagers, it's gonna take a long time to move turn that ship around. And then second, it's not on your terms, it's on their terms because you didn't really build that foundation before. So that you're gonna have to give that up. Where, okay, like where now you have to like be of like be ready when they're like when they're ready to talk to you. And the thing is, it can't be forced. So the key is like just like be intentional from like from the day you get up, the time you get up for the time you go to bed, be present, be intentional, and also realizing like physically being there and this being attuned when they're ready to talk. And so the key is it's their you're on their timetable now.

SPEAKER_02 50:36

That's awesome. Dr. Jack, I appreciate you being here today and providing your uh knowledge and wisdom and expertise in the area of parenting adult children. So as we wrap up today, uh go ahead. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 50:49

No, no, you know, it's great. I I love talking about this. Again, definitely talk about to the cows come on from a professional level, personal level. I one of the smartest things I did was become a parent. And uh in this research, like, oh, people who have kids are not as happy as people have don't have kids. That's BS. That is BS. When I read that stuff, it's BS. Like my quality of life is so much more improved by my children, and my quality of life is based is also connected to the quality of my relationship with my kids. And it's hard work. Who said this is going to be easy? So anything I can do to pass on my wisdom to other people, I'll be here.

SPEAKER_02 51:33

All right, as we wrap up today's conversation with the Dr. Jack, I'm reminded that parenting doesn't end, it transforms. Acceptance, boundaries, and connection aren't just concepts, they're invitations. Invitations to show up with grace, to speak life into our adult children, and to trust that healing is possible, even when the road has been long. If today's episode stirred something in you, I encourage you to sit with it, journal, pray, reach out, and remember you're not alone in this journey. You can learn more about Dr. Henman's work at engaged lifenow.com. Common spelling, engagelifenow.com. You can also go to my website, parentingadultchildren.org. That's common spelling, parentingadultchildren.org. You can uh leave reviews about the uh episodes that you're listening to. Uh you can send me text messages, leave me voicemail, uh would love to hear from you. If this episode spoke to you, share it with another father who might need it. Until next time, keep leading with love and let refuge begin at home. Thank you, Dr. Jack. Thanks.

SPEAKER_01 52:40

Please tune in next week for another episode of our podcast on parenting adult children.