Letting Go: Parenting Adult Kids with Janet Krebs

SPEAKER_04 0:38

Welcome to the podcast ABC's of Parenting Adult Children. Please join us as we discuss parenting adult children and the unique struggles that it comes along with.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Hello and welcome back to ABC's of Parenting Adult Children. Today we're chatting with Janet Krebs, someone who really gets the ups and downs of parenting adult kids. How are you doing, Janet?

SPEAKER_05 1:08

I'm doing great. How about yourself, James?

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Good. So we're going to dig into how to balance love, support, and independent independence in ways that work for everyone. Janet, thank you for being with us today. Please introduce yourself to the listening audience.

SPEAKER_05 1:21

Well, it I'm Janet all day long. Well, you know, we all the ironic thing, James, is I did not want to be a parent. I was one of those kids that was like, I'm never going to be a parent. I don't want kids too much trouble, blah, blah, blah. And you know, because you and I are both over 30, you're welcome. That we were told, we were told when we were growing up, don't ever wait until you're ready to become a parent because you're never going to be ready. And I'm absolute proof that that is wrong. I literally woke up one day and said to myself, I have enough love in my heart and enough money in the bank that I can share with another human being. Shared that little uh awakening with my husband, and he was like, I'm so glad to hear that. I've been feeling the same way. So and the rest is history. It wasn't all rosy, you know. Couple of five pregnancies, three live births, and two living children, and I wouldn't trade any of it for the world.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

How long have y'all been married?

SPEAKER_05 2:26

Oh my gosh. I should know this. But we were high school sweethearts, so 40 something.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_05 2:32

Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna be 62.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Keddy and I are working on 36 years.

SPEAKER_05 2:38

Yes. Do you know?

SPEAKER_01 2:39

We're right behind, we're right behind you.

SPEAKER_05 2:41

Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

Yeah. And how is it you don't have a gray hair on your head?

SPEAKER_05 2:48

Because I'm not quite ready yet, and so I am a slave to color, and unapologetically.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

There you go. My wife doesn't have a gray hair on her head, and she hasn't had to color her hair either.

SPEAKER_05 3:01

She's blasphemy.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Yeah, I know. Like, how in the world?

SPEAKER_05 3:06

How dare you?

SPEAKER_01 3:07

How are you doing this? And you know, do you know why do you know why men usually die off faster than women and get gray hair?

SPEAKER_05 3:16

No.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

It's because the women and children in our lives.

SPEAKER_05 3:20

Well, you couldn't you wouldn't have a rich life without us, so that's right.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

That's can't live with you, can't live without you.

SPEAKER_05 3:28

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

That's right. So um tell me a little bit about, I mean, you told me about your kind of your parenting story. You're married, and you how many children did you say you have?

SPEAKER_05 3:37

I have two kids.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

Okay. So tell me uh a little bit about your professional background and what inspired you to do what you do.

SPEAKER_05 3:48

Well, I stumbled upon being a leadership strategist, which really is, I believe, what we all are. Parenting is a posture, it's not a position. I could say that again, you could put it in the show notes, but if everybody literally tattooed, if every parent, role model, mentor, any person that is of influence, and so I'm gonna use the word influencer very generically because we all are, if we are responsible for another human being, that if we all just stepped into that level of responsibility and role when we say yes to taking care of others, life would be completely different. And so I was a teacher, educator. Uh, I was in HR, I did some really, really cool things. But 14 years in a simulation, uh, actually, it was a simulator, space flight simulator. I could have worn my uniform. Uh, I was Commander Krebs for a long, long time. But it was in teaching and in the simulator that I really honed my skills on getting kids to do what they didn't want to do, super effective communication, and having fun doing it. And so that's really what started the whole thing. And the reason why I do the work that I do today is mainly because, James, I don't know, you interview a lot of people, as do I. And we're doing a lot of finger pointing. Like, it's the kids of today, it's the kids of today. And I'm like, no, it's not the kids of today. Like, yes, they've got challenges. Doesn't every generation have its challenges? And I really would, I'm really on a campaign that if we all buy into leadership as a posture and we are the leaders of our worlds, our families, our lives, it's the onus of responsibility is on us. And that's that's my stance. And when we take that posture, boy, I'll tell you, that's where we make some amazing, amazing changes. And it's not that hard. You talk to people all the time. It's all challenge, it's all hard. And I want to make it fun and less hard.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

That's wonderful. We need to have fun at this, right?

SPEAKER_05 6:20

Yes, it's supposed to be fun.

SPEAKER_01 6:23

We need to have fun and we need to learn, we need to know or understand the importance of laughing at ourselves.

unknown 6:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

And at life. Yes. And at life, you know, life's hard, but we got to find the humor in it. That or we're just gonna be we're just gonna sit around angry and and upset and crying all day. And we don't want to do that.

SPEAKER_05 6:44

There's no reason to do that.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Right. So tell me a little bit about your military background, and you said you're Commander Krebs.

SPEAKER_05 6:51

You know, it's so funny that you said that. I worked in a spaceflight simulator and it wasn't military, but every person that came in was convinced I was military or former military. And as a matter of fact, I'd worked with the young Marines for about five years because I was perfect for them. So I did workshops for them on their site and for their families. That's hilarious. I was never in the military, but I am a military family. I'm married military, right? Son and son-in-law are military, so wholeheart for our military.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

So, so did you were did you work for NASA?

SPEAKER_05 7:31

No, it was it's a it's a private challenger centers were created as an offshoot from the Challenger disaster, and space flight simulators were built all across the world, and there was one within driving distance of where I live, and that's where I worked, taught, and educated STEM and life skills, 21st century life skills for the last 14 years of my teaching career.

SPEAKER_01 7:59

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_05 8:00

It was so fun so much fun.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

I spent I spent 30 years in IT and just recently retired, and one of my jobs was at Delta Airlines in Atlanta, Georgia, and I worked at their main facility. And they have a world-renowned uh flight simulator. People from all over the world come there to book schedule time on those flight simulators. And it's really, I never got to see on I never got to see the inside of one, but I was I was in the command center. I did desktop support, server support. And so I was in the command center from time to time, working on this, that, or another, and they would talk to me about it, and it's just big old amphitheater glassed in, and you can see the simulators down on the floor. And I was duly impressed. That was like right up my alley.

SPEAKER_05 8:47

It was it was, I mean, there are probably I don't even know how many people have can say that they've worked in a space flight simulator, but that was such a privilege, and I touched 65,000 people my time there. So I learned a lot. Oh yeah. I I did the math once, and that's conservative. But we we churned a lot of we churned some people through there.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

Now, were were those Marines or people that you trained, were they on a track to become astronauts?

SPEAKER_05 9:20

Or no, they were just students. It was STEM education married with 21st century life skills of problem solving, communication, decision making, and teamwork. And collectively, those two curriculums came together in the space flight simulator. Challenger centers were inspired by Krista McCulliff, who was the teacher that died in the Challenger disaster. And so they were educational simulators, but people ended up using them for lots of different things. But the majority of our audience was because our center closed. There are some still across the country, but we saw primarily fifth grade through adults.

SPEAKER_03 10:07

Okay. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_05 10:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

Well, we uh we think focus, you know, ABC's apparenting adult children is focusing on ages 18 through 30, pretty much. So parents of adult children. So um let's talk about surprising lessons for a little bit. What was the most surprising lesson learned when kids become adults?

SPEAKER_05 10:30

Who's learning the lesson? The kids or the parents about their kids?

SPEAKER_01 10:34

I think the parents. Yeah, I'm I'm that's focusing from the parent parental standpoint.

SPEAKER_05 10:41

I believe my entire practice is centered around we do way more for our kids when we do less. And so that trans, I mean, that transgresses into adulthood. It doesn't have to start then, but I think that's probably one of the biggest ahas is look at what they've done now that they're on their own and they're so capable.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

Right. That's good. So you think that's becomes a or it comes as a surprise to some parents?

SPEAKER_05 14:16

Do you think it comes as a surprise to some parents, James?

SPEAKER_01 14:20

Probably. Well, I mean, we have pi we have parents that and I was probably guilty of this. Um you know, while our children are are preteens, teenagers, and transitioning into adulthood, parents are supposed to be transitioning into a support role or a or a mentor, right? We spend 18, 19 years, whatever, teaching our children life skills and how to brush their teeth and all the mini myriad of things that you have to learn how to do, you know, to be a successful adult. And uh we get so wrapped up in that, we get so wrapped up in the to the to the daily activities of raising kids that you know we blink and turn around and all of a sudden now they're an adult and and we sometimes fail to transition right along with them. You know, we're we're stuck in parent-child mode, you know.

SPEAKER_05 15:15

I know, I hear it all the time from parents who are, my child has gone. Now what am I supposed to do? And I mean, you hear that, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

Sure. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 15:27

And the only thing that that leads me to believe is you A are too hung up in your child's identity as opposed to your own. And it's time for your ego to get out of your child's life for a moment, right? I mean, when we understand our job, which is really to foster and cultivate and then set them free, like we build the foundation and then we set them free and we celebrate, we don't lament. And if parents are lamenting when children leave, then I would just ask them to check in. And that's sometimes the work that I end up doing is to help parents put that in perspective. It's a celebration.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

Well, it's all about our perspective, right?

SPEAKER_05 16:16

Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

So it could either be a nightmare or or a celebration, or a little bit of both.

SPEAKER_05 16:22

And my job is usually to in reinforce the celebration. Yes, of course, there are some kids that end up, you know, not being ready, then that just means more work needs to be done. It's not a lament, it's never too late, it's just work still work to be done.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

So let's talk about relationship change changes and boundaries. Boundaries is one of those topics that we we uh touch on here a lot. Boundaries are so important both for the parents and for the adult child. So, how do relationships change during this stage?

SPEAKER_05 17:03

Well, again, I think you know, I'm I'm not gonna harp on the ego because it makes me sound like a woo-woo spiritual person, but when we understand the role of ego, there's a shift. So your child left, I don't whether they're in university, whether they're just moved out, you know, they've got a job, whatever the reason. What is like when we are intentional about making or maintaining the connections, then that becomes an easier problem-solving activity. For example, you haven't heard from your kid in a week. What's your first move? Are you emailing? Are you texting? Are you calling? And is your posture, why haven't you called me this week? Or is it, I miss you, hope you're having a great day? Or just thought of you this morning over coffee, hope you're having a great day. No guilt with the I miss you, right? Like, how do we connect? It has to be intentional, and it's not like we have to remember they're out there trying to find their footing, they're trying to make it for them. The last thing they want to do is to necessarily report back to mom or dad because they're out there, they're trying to adult, and they're trying to find their own foundation and their own footing on their own. So, who are we to be prescribing that I haven't heard from you in three days? In five, like, okay, so what? They're living their lives. So, the for me, in direct answer to your question, the boundaries are best formed when they form them for themselves. So, if there's zero communication, you can just, and I hear this all the time, especially to moms. I haven't heard from my child, doesn't matter how many times I reach out to them, they won't respond. And my response to them is then stop trying, leave them be. Like let them loose, let them cut loose. They will come back, but if it feels obligatory, they're not coming back.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

Right. I know my my wife, uh, she's getting better at um allowing the time period to get a little bit longer, right? Now, my my daughter, who'll remain unnamed, to protect her privacy, she uh she's still trying to find her footing and and uh she's you know, my hope and dream for her is that she'll catch a vision or a dream, something that she wants to really, you know, sink herself into and work towards and all that. She's struggled and she's had some struggles, and um not all of those struggles were pretty or graceful, you know. And um so we provide her with a cell phone, she's on her family plan, and we provide her that cell phone for the express purpose of us being able to get a hold of her because anyone's taking that. Mama can't get a hold of her, she's you know, ready for the funny farm herself, you know, after a certain amount of time. And uh like I said, she's getting a lot better at it and um which is good, it's good for her. And um so yeah, yeah, we have to we have to let our grown adults be grown adults and let them experience life and suffer the consequences of bad decisions if they make 'em, you know, because life is a wonderful teacher.

SPEAKER_05 20:41

Yeah. Well, and if you think about it, what's more powerful? Asserting, no, let me rephrase that. I'll just say it as a sentence. If we assert, and let's just use your daughter as an example, if every other day somebody was checking in on her, do you think that builds her confidence? Or does is the story that she tells herself that nobody believes in her because everybody keeps checking in on her?

SPEAKER_02 21:09

Right. Door number two. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 21:13

And so I think when we when we think through, again, my favorite word in this whole game of life, the whole education of life, is intention. If we think through why and what it is that we're about to do, then sometimes we can talk ourselves out of doing it. It's so much more elegant to wait for them and say, I just really miss you, or gosh, I really screwed up this week. Like that's so powerful because now they've they're coming from a place of vulnerability, but it's strength in vulnerability, not weakness. And when they have been led to believe that you believe in them, or in this case, you believe in her, and then and she is safe to admit that she's struggling, powerful, and that's elegant and that's growth.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

Right. So, do you have any tips for healthy boundaries for let's say parents?

SPEAKER_05 22:09

I did, I guess I did kind of talk around that, didn't I? That's where you start. No, your girl's fine. I am a boundary queen. I for myself, I love when I talk to my own kids and they'll be like, Mom, that's just a boundary you're gonna have to respect. I'm like, you got it. I love it. I love that they can articulate it. I don't know that there's rules to boundaries. I just think, I mean, it's there's not a one size fits all to any of this, James. So I don't know that you can, you know, there are certainly personal space, uh, time. We were just talking about check-ins, discussion topics, you know, what are the things that your kids are willing to discuss with you? What kinds of things are you willing to share with your kids? That goes both ways. And I think with adults, it has more to do with communication boundaries. Mine are gone. My kids don't live near me, so personal space and stopping in unannounced or something like that, which I would never do, but that's just not even an option. So I can't speak to that. But depending upon what each person's scenario is with it within their family, that's a great place to start. That's a great place for me to start with families.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

Well, I think the key, the key word here is healthy boundaries. You know, and healthy boundaries include love and respect, you know, and and trust. Trusting that our that our adult children are living intentionally and making good decisions and forging a path forward, you know, to be successful. Because guess what? You know, parents want their children to be the best that they can be, right? And our our hope and our dream is they'll they'll have a better life than we did, and that that they won't experience the heartache and the consequences of stupid decisions that we made when we were younger, right?

SPEAKER_05 24:10

Well, they really make their own stupid decisions. Right, right, that's true. They just don't have to mirror ours.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

They're right. We don't we don't want them to to rewrite the the chapter that we've already explained to them. Like I was I was, you know, when my my kids were teenagers and uh they were being very uh I pushed a lot of buttons and I thought I was gonna wind up in prison. Luckily I didn't. But uh I sat down with them, you know, I I told them, you know, when I between let's say 18 and 26, I was a dumpster fire, right? And there's a reason for that. I had a horrible childhood, blah blah blah. There's a lot of garbage there. But anyway, uh I'd sit down and I'd tell them. I'd I'd tell them about some of my escapades and and or I would use some of their exclamations or their declarations to me about their thought processes or what they thought about or what they had just done or whatever, you know, and I'd use that as a kind of a launching point to say, well, okay, guess what I did when I was twenty years old? You know, and I'd I'd be transparent and say, Hey, your dad was an idiot, you know, and it's it's it's by the grace of God that I'm sitting here talking to you, you know. And so let's try not to make that mistake again, you know, let's learn from it. You know, and there's nothing wrong with making mistakes as long as We can use those as trainable moments, right? Now, obviously there are mistakes that can end your life, you know, and there's some life altering mistakes that you absolutely want to make sure your kids or your adult children don't uh make. You know, and that's part of our job as parents is to, you know, set those boundaries and to to let them know don't drink and drive, don't play with guns, you know, blah blah blah. You know, the the those sort of life-altering events that, you know, would could lead to a lifetime of heartache and pain or God forbid other things, right? Yeah. So anyway.

SPEAKER_05 26:07

Yeah, I uh it that makes me think of um when my son was 13, he went to New York on his own. And not no one should have been surprised that he what he missed his flight home. And the sponsor that he was staying with, we called him, we got him home. That was 13. He will be 33 next month. Do you know that we have had more fun in the last 20 years poking fun because that kid continues to make mistakes when he books a flight or misses a flight or misses a connection? It's a joke. And when we really want him to be someplace, we will book for him. Or actually, I should say my daughter, but and now his wife would be like, Ben, we're just gonna book this for you because you just hit if his you do have do have a history of sometimes screwing up air reservations, right? So, but we just like I mean, did that really start when he was 13? It was just it's actually really funny, but yeah, sometimes there are just some residuals that we won't necessarily resolve, or he will, but it no longer concerns me. It's on him and his wife.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

So yeah, and it's like we're all a work of in progress. I don't care how young or how old you are, you know. I'm st I'm still learning stuff, and I turned 64 this year, and you know, I don't have all the answers, you know. And I I'm I still make mistakes, I just do it a lot slower. I don't I don't I don't make mistakes at light speed anymore.

SPEAKER_05 27:41

Yeah. Um, you know, you asked about the boundaries, and the only it and it keeps niggling at me, so I'm just gonna interject with this.

SPEAKER_02 27:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 27:52

When so for me, one of the major, and I think lots of parents would agree with this, whether this is their vernacular or not, connection is key. And the fun thing about making connections is it's free. Like connection can be a post-it note on your kid's steering wheel or on their bathroom mirror when they're living with you, or connection in this day and age can be a text or an email or something silly. Connection starts at any age. But the earlier we start, and I think you'll agree with this because you've spoken to a number of experts as I have, when we start really early, some of that later stuff when you're talking about boundaries and all of that, we're not reinventing anything because we've already established a pretty solid connection with our kids. They feel like they can talk to us, we feel like we can talk to them because we've got that connection, that we are their no-like and trust. We are the trusted advisor. And so I think when connection stays at the heart of any relationship, and you could even say that that's a spousal ingredient as well. But when we connect with others, especially our family, that's really at the core of a successful relationship. So it becomes easier as parents of adult children, if we are connected, to say our piece, set the boundaries, have those hard conversations, be hands-off, wait until we are asked some of those kinds of things that are hard for us, but it's so much easier when they're when everybody just knows that there is an established connection.

SPEAKER_01 29:46

Right. And so relationships can be messy and complicated, and whether it be you know, husband and wife, or whether it be boyfriend, girlfriend, your kids, whatever, right? And so the closer you are in a relationship, the easier it's gonna be to communicate, right? And and you're right, uh starting starting earlier is better better than not starting at all or trying to wait until they're 20 years old and try to make a connection at that point. You're like, oh, there's gonna be a problem.

SPEAKER_05 30:17

Well, and there's seasons of connection too. Like we all hear this lots of times, and I know this is not necessarily your audience, but you know, even the tweens, like the parents grow up, they're like, I don't know what like what happened to the child that I knew that used to be so loving, and now like they're this one-eyed ogre as you know, tweens and teens. And like they we used to be so close and now we're not. Okay, so there's seasons, so this is gonna be your season of distance, and your job is just to stay put, stay solid, and make yourself available for them and let them find you again. But there are seasons, you know, maybe right now, like you said, your daughter's is going through some struggles. Maybe this is gonna be a season where she's just doing some work on her own and she's going to be less communicative with you guys until she figures some stuff out. And then she's gonna come back and she's gonna be a major role back into the family again. So we have to respect that the seasons of growth and doing some work for ourselves and also for our adult kids. I know there are some times in my kids' lives, it's like I don't hear from them for a while, and then I find out that they were working on something, whether it was emotional or professionally or whatever, and it's just like, gosh, that must have been really tough. Thanks for sharing. Like, it's not about us.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

Right. Hey, have you ever heard of this guy named Jeff Dunham?

SPEAKER_05 31:45

No.

SPEAKER_01 31:46

Jeff Dunham and the the ventriloquist?

SPEAKER_05 31:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:50

He has all the dolls. Ahmed, the the dead terrorist, and Bubba J and and Peanut. Peanut's the one that just kills me. Every time he brings peanut out of the box, I'm in a fetal position looking for oxygen. I swear to God. He peanut is just so funny. Well, Jeff Dunham, uh, he's been doing this a long time. And um I think he's become quite wealthy because of it. Which is great. But uh so on stage before he before he brings the puppets out or his characters or whatever. I wonder if he has a multiple personality issue going on. It kind of makes you wonder, right? But anyway, anyway, uh so he talks about his family a lot, you know, you know, for the first five or ten minutes of of each Netscape or not Netscape, good Lord. Netflix specials. Anyway, uh so he talks about, you know, he he was married, got a divorce, he had two kids, I think then, then he got remarried, and his new wife had three kids. So they got they got three daughters and two boys, James and John. They're twins, I think. Uh, and he talks about his his three daughters. And I from a father's standpoint, it's just funnier than all get out. Because he talks about his daughters and the different stages they went through, and he says, one stage is Satan himself came and took took took residence in their hearts, and you know, and he snarls and he go, he'd go to their bedroom and try to talk to them, they'd they'd snarl and snap and growl at him, and he'd like, okay, I'm gonna go to the workshop and close the door and leave him alone. And then how mean and ugly and horrible they were, and and then he said, He said, one day, he said, uh, Satan left and Jesus came into their hearts and they were, hello, father, how are you? Can we have the keys to the car and your credit card, please? He was like, And the way he tells it, I'm not giving it any, you know, he tells the way he tells it's just so funny. But but it's it's he's you know, he's kind of correct. You know, our our you know, teenage daughters, you they go through a uh metamorphosis or a transformation of hundreds from one one to the next. And you're just like hold on to your pants.

SPEAKER_05 34:05

My my daughter, when I moved into this house where I am now, my daughter did not speak to me for a year. I don't remember what started it. I don't even remember how it ended. I just know that we literally did not speak a single word to each other. I would text her something to the effect of dinner is on the table. If you haven't eaten it in 30 minutes, I will simply put it away, kind of a thing. I wanted to eat, so it's not like I was uh I called her not so long ago, and I said, How did that ever end? Who was the because somebody asked me in an interview, who broke the silence? And I said, I can't answer that. I have no idea. So I called her and I said, Who, how did it start? First of all, like was it a I never speak of right? I mean, I don't even remember. And then I said, and who was the first one to break the silence? She goes, I don't know. I said, Well, how can neither of us know this? She's like, I don't know. I probably just needed something, so I decided to ask you. So isn't it funny how in the like when you think about that, people are like aghast, you didn't speak to your daughter for a year and she lived in the same house? And I'm like, Yeah, it really wasn't that big of a deal. She had a life, she went to school, she, you know, blah, blah, blah, she drove to school. Uh, and it when I think about the gravity of what that sounds like, it sounds horrific. And yet it really wasn't that big of a deal, to the point that neither of us can remember how it ended.

SPEAKER_02 35:44

That's funny.

SPEAKER_05 35:45

So talk about a season which felt like when you talk about that, it's just like, how does that even happen? Well, it happened and it really wasn't that big of a deal. So the seasons lose their weight the older away, the longer away they are. The older they are in the historic.

SPEAKER_01 36:02

Right.

SPEAKER_05 36:02

You get it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

Both of those. Absolutely, both of those. So talking about handling tough conversations, how do how do you approach sensitive topics without overstepping as a parent? You know, parent, you're you're either kids or you're not going to be able to do that. Give me an example.

SPEAKER_05 36:19

Give me an example because I think it like if it's my issue or their issue, it makes a big difference.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

Well, it's just uh let's say they're still living at home and you know they they're staying out late, you know, two or three in the morning, you think maybe they got an alcohol problem or a drug problem, or you think they're hang hanging with the wrong crowd, or you see or hear or smell evidence of, you know, pot smoking, or you know, things that that would concern a parent, you know, how do they how do they um let's just say they're between the ages of 18 and 30, right? Uh they may have their own vehicle, they may have their own job, they may be going to school, you know, who knows, whatever their life is. But how do how do parents approach those difficult conversations without overstepping?

SPEAKER_05 37:07

Great question. And so relevant right now because of this whole campaign for like a lot of families are really struggling with failure to launch, and my heart goes out for that. I don't understand it. I'm really trying to do some research to understand it, but I don't. That being said, in direct answer to your question, I am an absolute 400% advocate on making agreements. So the tough conversation isn't quite so tough. So, for example, if I have a child that has either boomeranged home or has not left yet, it is very early that the agreements are made and agreed upon. So call that a contract, call that whatever you want, but there's agreements. And so if there, if one of my agreements is there will be a curfew that is respected, and then, as per your example, the curfew is ignored, then it's very simple to go back to the agreement that has been written out, and it's like we have an issue because you're not upholding your agreement that you that we had talked about, and so it makes it so much easier. So, in answer to your question succinctly, make agreements first because it makes everything that comes behind that so much easier. The problem, the challenge that I hear from parents and clients is that they don't have those systems in place, and so now it's your question. How do we have those hard conversations? Starting with agreements makes that so much easier.

SPEAKER_01 38:56

Right. All right, so I'm gonna throw you a curveball. You ready?

SPEAKER_05 39:00

I don't know, maybe. Sure, let's go for it.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

Okay, so let me see. I'm gonna I was gonna use my daughter as an example. So one day, Katie and I were in the kitchen.

SPEAKER_05 39:13

Your wife and your daughter, because you weren't.

SPEAKER_01 39:15

Yes, no, Katie Katie's my wife, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_05 39:17

Okay, we're not naming.

SPEAKER_01 39:18

Katie's my wife. We're in the we're in the kitchen having a conversation, cooking supper, I don't know, whatever we were doing. And uh hamburger helper, one of the flavors of hamburger helper for the night. And uh my daughter walks into the kitchen. She had shaved her head. Huh?

SPEAKER_05 39:35

What's her age?

SPEAKER_01 39:36

Her age at that time was probably, I don't know, fifteen, sixteen years old.

SPEAKER_05 39:41

High school.

SPEAKER_01 39:42

You know, when when they're at the most volatile stage of their entire life. So she walked in and I looked up, and she had shaved half of her head. On one side of her head, she had purple hair, right? And on the other side it was completely bald. So I looked at Katie and I looked at Chris whoops, I looked at my daughter, I almost said her name, sorry. I looked at her and I said, So, what's going on with this? And I know, you know, looking back at it, you know, she is she was doing everything she could, you know, to build her autonomy and and her in being her own individual person and her identity and and you know then came the tattoos, then came the nose rings and tongue ring, tongue studs, and yada yada yada yada. You know, or here's another example. What do you do when your child, your adult child, comes to you and says, Hey, mom and dad, I'm gay. You know, they that they identify with the alphabet kids, you know, non-binary. And I had I had a 38-year-old son that just passed away in January that he identified as non-binary. I guess I was I found out about that uh, I don't know, about 10 years ago or whatever, you know. And I was like, Of course, he was an adult by that time, and he lived in Michigan, and we lived down here in South Carolina, and we weren't really close, but uh yeah, it was a kind of a shock to the system because I didn't you know, and so how did how do parents handle that? That tough conversation.

SPEAKER_05 41:10

Which one you gave me two non-binary and or just let's just say alternative lifestyles versus teenage rebellion.

SPEAKER_01 41:20

Yeah, let's go teenage rebellion.

SPEAKER_05 41:22

It's interesting because you you gave me 80% of the answer in your explanation. She was trying to, you know, make a statement for herself, exhibit some autonomy, and all of that. And that's exactly what she was doing. So you came at that with understanding. So really, like your response, that's gonna be again very individual. I and I'm trusting that your response, which was um, what did you say? Uh what's going on with the water? What were you saying? Oh, yeah, what what what's going on? Yeah, so that's like it's kind of like hello, dad, you can see what what's going on. I've done this kind of thing. I love, and so this is part of my playful side, and it worked for me and works for me in parenting and has proven successful with my clients as well. I love the disruptive approach. So if we were to rewind that scenario, how much fun would it have been to just completely ignore her? She may have done it for all of the reasons that you said autonomy, make a statement, blah, blah, blah. She may have also done it just to piss you guys off or to get a rile out of you, or to see what your boundary was in regards to her appearance. And she did something on her own. How would that have played out had you said nothing?

SPEAKER_01 42:54

I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 42:55

Right?

SPEAKER_01 42:57

I I actually responded in a much calmer fashion than I thought that I was going to respond. Because in my mind, in my mind, the father figure was going, what in the hell is going on in your head? What are you thinking? What are you doing? You look like you look like a freak. Exactly. Luckily, I kept all that in my head and it never never left my lips.

SPEAKER_05 43:21

Which is exactly why saying nothing because that's what she was expecting from you. So congratulations. You did you did version of buttoning up your mouth as you were able to at that time. So congratulations for that. But can you imagine what it would have been had you just said nothing? Had your wife just said nothing and just acted as though everything was normal. I'm sure she would have been the one sitting at the dinner screaming, aren't you guys gonna say something? Aren't you gonna notice? Like, what's wrong with you guys? Here I sit with the shaved head and colored hair, and no one's reacting, right?

SPEAKER_03 44:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 44:07

That's the fun part. That's the fun part when we just play exactly the opposite role of what they were expecting of us. It's so much fun.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

So moving on, let's do uh support versus enabling. What's the difference between the two? How parents can recognize they've crossed the line.

SPEAKER_05 44:27

How do they recognize you know, that's a you know, of all the interviews, that's a great question. How do they recognize they've crossed the line? Because I believe that well-intentioned parents who they think they're supporting when they're enabling, I don't think they know the difference. Honestly and truly, based on my research and my experience, they do not know the difference. They really believe that what they're doing is in the best interest of their kids. And they don't know that it was enabling until it's too late, until the behavior has been allowed to blossom in an environment of enabling, that they everyone starts scratching their head, like, oh, what's wrong with this scenario? But I don't believe it starts out that way. Parents don't say, today I'm going to enable my child, or today I'm being supportive. They think it's all supportive.

SPEAKER_02 45:28

Right, right. You're probably correct.

SPEAKER_05 45:31

A really quick example of that. I had a client that was very quick. She was saying, Janet, I can't get my daughter to go to bed at a reasonable hour. I pass by her bedroom and I'm dropping off folded laundry outside of her bedroom door at 2 a.m. and her lights are still on, she's on the computer, I have no idea what she's doing. What do I do? And my question to her was, Mom, my only question to you is, why are you still leaving folded laundry outside of your daughter's bedroom?

SPEAKER_01 46:05

Why are you doing her laundry?

SPEAKER_05 46:07

With the best of intentions. This mom thought she had an issue about her daughter not going to bed on time when the real issue was you shouldn't even be up at 2 a.m. doing her laundry. But it was with the best of intentions that she asked the question.

SPEAKER_01 46:25

Of course.

SPEAKER_05 46:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:28

Good stuff.

SPEAKER_05 46:29

I believe that.

SPEAKER_01 46:29

So let's talk about boomerang kids. Our our children, our children leave the nest, they've they they spread their wings and they jump out of the nest. And we're sitting there going, Jesus, I hope they don't hit the ground at Mach 3. And uh due to maybe due to no fault of their own, because uh you know as expen how expensive life is, right? Uh it costs a lot of money to live. And uh you know, our our children, our adult children are faced with all these deposits and blah blah this, blah blah that, and and you know, who knows, maybe they're going to college, they don't have any, you know, working a part-time job, whatever it is. Maybe due to no no uh fault of their own, they wind up back at at home going, uh, you know, it didn't work out and I I need help. And so you let them move back into the house. How do we handle what what's the correct way, the healthy way to handle that?

SPEAKER_05 47:23

And I and my pause is because I feel the sadness in that all of a sudden. Because that is so epidemic right now.

SPEAKER_02 47:32

Right.

SPEAKER_05 47:33

And we won't throw a date out there because I know these are evergreen episodes, but that does seem to be today's epis uh epidemic. That being said, you said in the very beginning of our time together, you know, don't we all want our kids to have a better life than what we're than what than our own? And I think sometimes when our kids go out there, they think that too. And when it's not that, how do they respond? So, for example, in the in the example that you just made, you know, they they can't housing, right? Housing is expensive. The thought of getting a roommate or two is so far beyond them. Because now they what? I what? I have to share space with people that I don't know. Like I'm used to our house, mom, dad. I had my own bedroom, you cooked, and like so coming home is the natural thing rather than is there like it may not be the lifestyle that you want, but it keeps you independent. And I think somewhere in the middle, they just have a very interesting expectation of what life on their own is going to be like. That being said, that wasn't your question. Your question was, how do you handle when they come back? They come back, and then the boundary, the agreement is in place. This is what's going to happen, you're home. Like, I know you've been out on your own for a while now, but guess what? The rules are still the same here in this house. I don't sleep when you're not home yet. Whatever your laundry list is, and I like having a deadline put on it. And the deadline is either the drop-dead deadline of this is when this offer or arrangement expires, and or then we will be sitting down to review the agreements. Because when there is no plan, if there are no agreements, then how like it doesn't end.

SPEAKER_01 49:42

It could just go on forever, huh?

SPEAKER_05 49:44

And honestly, like kids are super smart. You know, parents are like, I don't know how to get my kid out. You know, we we pay for this, we pay for that, dinner's always on the t. And I'm thinking to myself, then stop. Like they pay rent. They hear they pay.

SPEAKER_01 50:00

You all you always hear these stories about my son's 45 years old and he's been living in the basement for the last 15 years, playing video games all night. And I'm like, what? You allowed it. No, no, turn off the internet, turn off the electricity down there, don't feed them. Eventually they're gonna fly out the door and go, Oh, I gotta find something better than this.

SPEAKER_05 50:23

You want to here's here's a confession for you. My kids were terrible when they were young in the house, but this is just an example of what this looks like, what you just described, what it might look like, you know, down the road. My kids were electronic vampires, and they always left the lights on. So one day before dinner, we all sat down before dinner, and I handed them the light bill, and I divided it by four, and they were each responsible for a quarter. And was like, Mom, how can you possibly make us responsible for the electric bill? I was like, well, because you're irresponsible in your usage of it. This is how you're gonna learn. But we don't make any money. We're eight, we're 11. How are we supposed to pay? Boy, did I have the cleanest grout in the house in the entire, in the entire state. My kids did more of the stupid chores that nobody would ever want to do, but my house was really clean and my grout was really cleaner. And guess what? When they went to other people's houses, they started turning off the lights. And to this day, they are each so electricity responsible. There you go. So that's where that kind of starts, right? They were probably like eight, eight and twelve, like something stupid. Like somebody like CPS would have come to say you can't do that. But we did. Now they know. So agreements, share responsibility, and let them see glimpses of the real world. That is that screams volumes to their education.

SPEAKER_01 52:03

Amen. So uh it's funny. I was listening to another stand-up comic. I forget who he was. It was a black fellow, an older black gentleman, and he was talking about, you know, that their culture is a little bit different and how they raise kids and their boundaries and stuff. And and he was talking about how he was trying to get his kid, his son, to take out the trash. Hey, whatever his name was, Mark, whatever, you know, hey, go take out the trash. You know, he was up, he was down in downstairs in his recliner watching TV after work or whatever, eating dinner. And the and like fathers always do, right? And and the kid was upstairs and he was like, hey, take out the trash. That was his chore. He was expected to take out the trash every day. His son wouldn't do it. Wouldn't do it, kept ignoring him. So he said, after about 10 or 15 minutes of that crap, he said he logged into the to the router, the the the uh Wi-Fi router, and he disabled his internet. And he said, he came flying out of that room.

SPEAKER_03 52:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:59

Hey, uh, dad, I'll I've lost connection to the internet. He says, I know. Take out the trash. What? I said, if you want to get back on the internet, you're gonna take out the trash. And then I'll think about whether I'm gonna turn it back on or not. And so he he, you know, he was like, I I can fix this crap. He says, Yeah, yeah, take out the trash or no more internet for today. And uh it turned into a huge motivator, and I was like, Yes, that's wonderful.

SPEAKER_05 53:27

Yeah. So it's so interesting. Now we're going back to the very beginning of this conversation when I said parenting is leadership, leadership is a posture, not a position. That is a beautiful example of a dad taking leadership over the situation. And like and nothing needed, no lecture, nothing. Just took care of the problem. Kid comes down, explains to him what the new rules are, done. That's what I mean when I say it doesn't have to be hard. That could have turned into a screaming match up and down. If you don't come down here right now to take out that trash, I'm tired of every day. Like, right? All you had to do is just come from in the side door and nip it in the bud, and you're having a completely different conversation. Success.

SPEAKER_01 54:22

All right, so I think we're running out of time here. So let's talk about parents that become empty nesters in the and the struggles that they've, you know, loss of identity, blah, blah, blah. You know, gray divorce, all of that.

SPEAKER_05 54:35

What did you say, Laslie?

SPEAKER_01 54:37

Gray divorce.

SPEAKER_05 54:39

What's that?

SPEAKER_01 54:39

Gray, gray, old people, yeah. Older people getting divorced. You haven't heard of gray divorce?

SPEAKER_05 54:46

I have not.

SPEAKER_01 54:47

Yeah, it's a huge epidemic now, believe it or not. There's a lot of parents that kids leave for college, they're out on their own, mom and dad are looking at each other, going, you know, they're in their fifties, sixties, whatever. And they look at each other and go, Who are you? And what are you doing in my house? And what do we have in common anymore? Uh I remember you, we we got married 50 years ago, but but our whole identity's been wrapped up in these kids, and now they're gone. And now what are we gonna do? You know, and unfortunately, they've grown so far apart that they've they're like, well, you know, we don't want to be roommates, we'll just get divorced and go our separate ways. And you know, that's a thing.

SPEAKER_05 55:30

I just didn't know it. I've heard that. I just haven't didn't hear it as you named it.

SPEAKER_01 55:35

Great divorce, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 55:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:37

Somebody coined the phrase and I just stuck with it.

SPEAKER_05 55:39

Sure. So the question is how do they handle it?

SPEAKER_01 55:42

How do how do parents handle the emptiness syndrome?

SPEAKER_05 55:47

Personally, I think I know for myself and for anybody that's in my sphere of influence, friends, family, clients, anybody that will listen, if you can't, again, it's intention, James. It's just plain old intention. We are smart people. Do the math. If you're in your 40s and you know you've got roughly 10 years before your kid leaves, what are you thinking? What are you doing? Are you on the gerbil wheel of life and not paying attention to your own life? Or is it time to wake up? You see what's happening. That's the moment where you're like, oh my gosh, my child's leaving in 10 years, five years, three years. I better fill in the blank. I better get a hobby. I better lose some weight. I better get some new friends, I better reconnect with my husband or kick him out or decide what I'm doing in my marriage. Like, I'm sorry, it sounds really insensitive, and I may become your least favorite interview. But you know what, people? We're smart. Wake up. Be the chief everything officer in your life. Like, that's what leaders do. They have a vision, they know what's coming. For people that claim they wake up and had no idea that empty nesting was going to be this hard. I'm sorry, I call bullshit. You knew. You knew. I'm sorry. I mean, I know that sounds really insensitive, but how can you not know? Your kid gets a driver's license, hopefully, although that's epidemic now too. Kids don't want to drive. But let's say majority of kids get a driver's license at 16. Right, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 57:34

It's a rite of passage.

SPEAKER_05 57:35

Right? It's a rite of passage. 1617, they're already showing you that they want to be gone all the time. Can I go run an errand for you? I'm gonna go here, there, da da, da. Your your job has already become less consuming. So the writing is on the wall. How are you not awake to the trends, knowing that it's going to be very soon that they're all gone? How do you not know that? I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 58:03

It's literally the the circle of life, you know, the the cycle of parenting. They you, you know, you bring them into the world, you raise them, you spend 18 years, 19 years teaching them life skills in hopes that they will be able to stand on their own two feet and be productive members of society, somebody you can be proud of, right?

SPEAKER_05 58:21

Right. So, how can we not expect that of ourselves? Once the kids are gone, you should be doing the happy dance, naked in your kitchen if you want. Woo-hoo! I get to do all these things, right? I mean, it should be the happy dance. Yes, of course. Can you be sad that your children aren't at home or whatever? Then come up with your strategies, your new behaviors to stay connected with your kids while they're gone, andor go quiet and let them establish how they want to stay connected. But this is not a moment to lament. This is a moment to celebrate.

SPEAKER_01 59:01

Absolutely. Amen. I agree with that.

SPEAKER_05 59:04

Woohoo! And go dance naked in the kitchen if you want.

SPEAKER_01 59:07

Here's something I told my kids. Uh, we had teenagers way back in 2015 when our teenagers were living at home, eating our food, using our internet, sucking up the electricity, not doing their laundry, the list goes on. My wife and I would go to work and come back home, and my daughter would be standing around going, What's for supper? I looked at her and I said, What did you cook? What did you cook? We've been at work all day. You've been at home all day. What did you cook? Well, there's no food in the house. We go out and spend$500 on groceries, and if it didn't have hot pockets, pizza, or some kind of crap that they could throw in a microwave for 10 seconds, we didn't have any food in the house. I'm like, Can you read? I don't know how to cook. I said, hamburger helper. A full-grown chimpanzee could make hamburger helper if you gave them the tools. All you need is a frying pan, hamburger meat, and read the box. It tells you exactly what to do blow by blow, how to fix it. Well, I don't do that. I'm like, well, then you can just starve. You can just go hungry. And my wife and I got tired of that real quick. And what we did is we just went out to eat after we got off of work and we came home and we didn't cook nothing. We're like, you know, you're like, if you want to, if you want to eat, you gotta go to the kitchen and make you something. Make a sandwich, make you a bologna sandwich or a ham sandwich, or you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:26

And uh And a great response to that for anyone that's listening is if I help you now, how will you know how to feed yourself when you leave this house? And then at least they understand why you're doing what you're doing. You're not the ass now. You're not, oh my dad's such a jerk, my mom is so mean, you're the I guess they're right. I better figure out how to cook or at least understand the kitchen.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:52

Back to Jeff Dunham. His wife took his one of his daughters to the to the gas station. And she she turned on her turned on video on her phone, and it was like a 20-minute ordeal. Her daughter, his daughter, had no clue how to put gas in a car. She didn't know she needed a debit card or a credit card. She didn't know how to put it into the card reader and punch in the security code. She didn't even know how to open up the gas thing on the car and put the nozzle in the car. And so they had like a little 20-minute video, and she was on the other side of that phone just laughing. She's like, you know, it's like handing a millennial a tell them to drive a car with a manual stick shift or give them a give them a uh an analog phone, right? Remember the kind that you had to do like this, you know, the rotary phones. Anyway, I digress.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:45

You started the started this whole interview. You just made my point. You said the best advice that you could give or that parents learn, and it's when we do too much for our kids, we're doing really less for them. And that you just made my point. Perfect example. But if you think about how would the child know how to do it unless the adult takes the time and says, you know what, you're gonna get your license in the in a year. You should probably practice fueling a car. Every time you're in this car and I need gas, you're gonna put gas in the car. So when you're on your own, you know how to do it without even thinking.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:28

It's like it's like the kids don't learn through osmosis.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:31

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:32

Sure, they they know that you're getting out of the car to put gas in the car, and they know that you probably have a piece of plastic or you go in and pay cash or whatever, but they're not paying attention to any of that. They're on their smartphone or their iPad or whatever, tablet, you know, scrolling Facebook or Snapchat or whatever it is they're looking at, and then it and then reality hits, and they're like, I don't know how to do that.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:54

So, whose whose responsibility is that? Most children today are not gonna say, I don't really know how to put gas in the car. Can you teach me? That's probably not gonna happen because back again. See, now we've come full circle, James. It's our responsibility. So we can't point the finger at the kids when they don't know things if we haven't been intentional to step up as leaders and show them the ropes.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:23

Very good. Case on point. Case I had another thing I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:29

He made all my arguments so beautifully today.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:31

Good, good. We're on the same page.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:35

100%.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:37

So uh I want the listening audience to know how to get a hold of you, so I'm gonna share my screen. I got your website up. I actually uh um set this up before we hit record because usually I'm fumbling around. So this is uh Janet Krebs.com. Common spelling. Well, K-R-E-B-S.com may not be so common for them, but Janet Krebs.com. Let's raise tomorrow together. I love this. I believe in empowering parents to be leaders with proven strategies to nurture strong relationships with your children and create positive change that lasts a lifetime. So, listening audience, or if you're watching my YouTube video, go to this website and check it out. Uh coaching, speaking, books, free resources. Everybody loves free resources. And in the news. It looks like you're at a TED talk here.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:29

I've been on stage a number of times as a speaker, spreading the word, changing lives.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:35

There you go. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:38

You know what's really cool? On that website or ask or the web the the email that you're gonna put in the show notes. I still answer my own emails. Really? I still do. Many of my mentors have said you really should just give that up, and and I refuse to turn that over to another human. I still really find it very uh lethargic, and honestly, it's my responsibility. People are expecting to hear from me, so I respond to all of my own emails.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:16

There you go. I have uh I have the the private parenting Facebook group. Uh we have got we've got like 1.4,000 members. I have a Reddit, uh, subreddit. I don't even know if you know what Reddit is, but it's uh you know back in the BBS days.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:31

Yeah, oh I've poked around. I I know about a little bit about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:34

So I've got I've got parenting adult children subreddit, and I got 196 members. Uh it's it's been in existence for five or six years, and it just laid dormant, nothing happened. But all of a sudden it's just taken off. I've I've it's been discovered. And so now I got parents asking questions. Well, guess who answers most of those questions?

SPEAKER_05 1:05:53

You.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:54

That's right. As you should. And uh so so yeah, well, my wife helps some as well, but yeah, I'm very active in all those communities, or try to be anyway, as much as possible. Yeah, and sometimes sometimes I give them a a quick answer and and short, sweet, and to the point. And sometimes they're like, What?

SPEAKER_05 1:06:17

Well, and honestly, like on my role with social media, I'm not a fan. I'm actually astounded that people will, you know, post something and then sift through 797 responses and expect to be able to discern a a response or a strategy that is of value. But every time I try and put a nugget in there, somebody will be like, well, can you tell me more or can you explain more? I'm like, like, just here's my email. Just call me or DM me, and then I get in trouble for trying to sell. I'm not trying to sell anything, I'm just trying to help you, and I'm not gonna do it in a Facebook post because I'd like to have a discussion with you so I can actually help you. Like, I didn't say anything about hiring me, I just want to help you because you sound distressed.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:09

Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:10

I get myself in trouble, so I don't sometimes I just pass right along. So, but people really are struggling. I'm not surprised that your Facebook group has exploded.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:22

Yeah, I I had a pastor one time, he doesn't he doesn't engage in political or religious religious conversations online, especially on like Twitter or Facebook or whatever, and he said something to me many moons ago that made a lot of sense. And he said He said, Some of these issues are quite complex, and he says, I'm not going to try to address them in a sound bite. Right? Perfectly so. And it's true. You can't you can't answer some of these questions in two sentences, you know.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:54

I'm gonna use that. Can I use that?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:56

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:57

I'm just gonna use that. Like I can't. I mean, that's often what I say, but I like the soundbite better. It's like I can't I can't do it here in writing in three sentences on a Facebook Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:09

I mean, it it's you can give them a quick answer and say, if you have any further questions, email me at blah blah blah blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:15

Oh no, I get in trouble. You're not allowed to solicit on these. It's like, okay, well then you can discern you know the 797 responses that people gave you. You can waste your time and sift through those and then still just get opinions instead of valid professional responses. Yeah, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:34

So that's why that's why I have Instagram, TikTok, I have all these social media accounts to where it's uh in my own personal website, blah, blah, blah. You know, and so I can I can I can those are my my uh my little digital communities that I can say what I want to. Right. So anyway, so I've really enjoyed this conversation. It went longer than I anticipated.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:59

So very much.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:59

Yeah. So to the listening audience, I'm gonna say uh or to you, I'm gonna say thanks to Janet Kreb for such a great conversation today. If you liked what you heard, hit subscribe, share this episode with someone who needs it, and follow us on Instagram at Parenting Adult Children 125, and on our website, parentingadultchildren.org. See you next time on ABC's of Parenting Adult Children, and thank you for the privilege of your time.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:26

Thank you, James. It's been a pleasure.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:29

Please tune in next week for another episode of our podcast on parenting adult children.