From Parenting to Mentoring: A New Role with Rick and Clancy Denton

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Welcome to the podcast ABC's Of Parenting Adult Children. Please join us as we discuss parenting adult children and the unique struggles that it comes along with.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

Hello and welcome back to ABC's of Parenting Adult Children podcast. I'm your host, James Moffat. This is the podcast where we explore the joys and challenges of parenting our grown-up kids with wisdom, patience, and a little humor. In today's episode, I'm joined by Rick and Clancy Denton of the Loud, Quiet, Empty Nest Living Podcast. I hope I got that right. You did? You did. Yeah, I as I was telling you offline, I listened to a couple of your episodes, and my wife and I have been empty nesters for about five or six years now. And uh, of course, we're not really empty nesters because my wife had to have two dogs and two cats. So anytime I want to go out of town or do anything, I have to figure out who's gonna watch the dogs, right? Who's gonna babysit the dogs?

SPEAKER_03 1:10

They were just dealing with that.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

You're dealing with that. My God, it just drives me out of my ever-loving mind when I think about it.

SPEAKER_03 1:16

I'm just and it's our and it's our daughter's cat. It's not even our cat, but she got him in high school, and so of course she can't take him to college, so we have a cat.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Well, cats are pretty self-sustaining. If you leave food and water and a and a couple of clean kitty litter boxes out, you know, I think you can leave for three or four days and not have to worry about it too much. You can't leave dogs alone for three or four days because your house is going to be a quarantine zone. You'll have to call the hazmat people out to go in there first and clean it up before you can go in and breathe air. But uh I'm really excited about having you guys uh on the podcast episode today. Obviously, uh uh we're all empty nesters and we've uh my wife and I have been we're we've been married 35 years, going on 36. We had four children. Uh two of them uh are no longer with us. One one had uh uh brain cancer, tumors. She lasted uh that was back in she died in 2001, so it's been a long time. And I had a 38-year-old son who was in RSV. He was in intensive care unit in Michigan for five weeks. And I was really we were kind of uh we weren't really close, right? We were friends on Facebook, but he was uh he identified with uh non the alphabet kids. I'll just call it the alphabet kids. He he uh he identified with them and he liked to cross dress and when he dressed up as a woman, he looked just like his mother, and that freaked me out. I was like so I just had to unfollow him on Facebook because he was just so over the top with his lifestyle and everything. However, you know, we we I guess we kind of grew separate over the years, and I was hoping that he would uh you know overcome all of that and go to long-term rehab that I could go up there and visit him and maybe reconnect, you know, and and uh mend whatever bridges needed to be mended or whatever, you know. Well that that didn't happen. So but we still have two other kids that are with us, and one of my sons, uh, I won't name his name, he's uh a successful attorney in downtown Charleston. And I have a daughter that lives in downtown Charleston. Okay, nice.

SPEAKER_05 3:42

Yeah. Well, certainly love Charleston. Sorry to hear that about the the kids. I think that's one of the things about parenting adult children is you know, as your adult children become adults, they choose their own paths, and that's one of the challenges is is how do you maintain a relationship? And I know that that's been something that's really important to Clancy and me in that idea of we're we prioritize keeping that relationship intact and recognizing the adult, the adult's gonna be what the adult's gonna be. Right.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

It was funny, I I work a part-time security job at Walmart. I'm retired, and but I still have to work a part-time job, you know, just kind of make ends meet and keep the lights on. And uh I was taking a break inside Walmart, so I was up front uh where they do their uh uh express checkout, you know. And I heard this kid yelling on the on the cell phone, well, I'm not 18 anymore. And my head kind of snapped up and I looked, it was a young black man, you know, uh male, and uh, I'm sure he was talking to his mom or dad or something, and he was like, I'm not 18 anymore, you can't tell me what the hell to do. I'm just I'm I'm a grown man now. I was like, Yeah, you tell them. You assert that you assert that independence, but just understand when you need money to pay your rent, that's not gonna work very well.

SPEAKER_03 5:02

That's exactly right. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 5:04

You know, we it's but we did just have an episode about that where it's that how do you financially support your children? Should you what's that balance look like, especially 18, right? You know, a lot of kids are still in high school, but once they're out of that high school realm.

SPEAKER_03 5:19

Well, and we, you know, we have one who is in law school, he's about to start his second year, and then we still have one that is in college, and you know, we have chosen to continue to financially support them all the way through just because you know, he could not work the first year of law school, that just was not an option. It's so crazy. And so, you know, the price of school and living is just outrageous these days for these kids. So I don't know how any of them are doing it.

SPEAKER_05 5:52

And it is such a balance when you're doing that to let them continue to maintain that independence. And and in this particular category, what we've chosen to do is treat it like an income. Here is your income. If you'd had a job, not that we're matching what his job would have, but here is income, and then it is up to you to self-manage that. So trying that sort of bridge between full-blown, you're out of the house, I don't have any involvement with your finances to controlling everything. We've chosen that middle ground. And I think a lot of parents, especially those that have moved into that emptiness phase, really struggle with that tension between their adults, but my goodness, they can't, especially if they're students, really truly be out there on their own.

SPEAKER_01 6:34

Well, I think one of the things that parents uh sometimes we don't understand. I mean, obviously we're beyond that and we've gotten that understanding in our head, but a lot of times parents have been so wrapped up in the identity of their children, right? Because you spend 18 years raising them, you put a roof over their head, you feed them, you educate them, you you you try to impart your your uh your world view and your religion and political viewpoints and all of this stuff, right? We spend so much time ingraining that into them that when they turn 18, you know, ABC's of parenting adult children is for parents of kids 18 to 30 years old, right? And and so parents children and parents go through a parallel transition track, right? And as as our children transition into adults, right, yeah, they still may be at home, but our our role changes from a parent-child relationship to that of a mentor and a support person, right? And a lot of parents, they're so in intensely involved in their lives that they don't recognize the fact that, hey, my role has transitioned, you know, and I need to let go, I need to let go of some of the control and let let them make some decisions on their own and let them make mistakes because guess what? Life is the best teacher there is, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:02

I think that was very hard for me, and I'm sure for moms, especially, because I was the caretaker. I stayed home with them, or I had a job that I was flexible enough that I could be the room parent and be involved in all of their activities all the way through. And so, yes, it was very hard for me. And even now, when they get disappointing news, or they maybe didn't make the decision that I wanted them or thought they should make. Yeah, internalizing that, it's difficult because I still find myself feeling that hurt for them that I have to think they're adults. I can still be upset for them, but I can't internalize that emotion like I used to when they were younger.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

So do me a favor and kind of give us, give my listening audience your parent story. Ooh, our parent story. That's gonna so just a just a mile down, you know, just a top level, just a top level view.

SPEAKER_05 9:03

So we were a young couple and thought to ourselves, let's start by having a family. No, I imagine you don't want to go that far back. Yeah, our kids right now are 23 and 20 years old. Our oldest is in law school here in Dallas at SMU. Our youngest is a rising junior at the University of Arizona. Oh, wow. They yeah, which is strange because, well, to us anyway, so we're from North Texas. We've raised our family in Texas, and both of our children went to rival universities for their undergrad, as our oldest went to Arizona State, our youngest is at the University of Arizona. Why they both went to Arizona? No idea. Another kind of maybe comical or light example of you can guide your children, but they're gonna choose their own path. And I think if I were to describe our parenting journey, is perhaps a a parenting journey is one that many have experienced. We lived in the suburbs, our kids went to public schools, they were involved in activities, they did well in school, they moved on to college. I think our theme, without even crystallizing it in as many words, is a theme that's we've carried forward in the empty nest, and that is that of the primary goal is to maintain a relationship with them. Clancy has done a phenomenal job of it has been all transparent all the time. Even in some of the difficult topics of or the challenging ones around sex or drugs or those kind of elements. She's always chosen an openness. And I think that openness has allowed us to maintain the relationship that we have with our kids today in the empty nest.

SPEAKER_03 13:39

Yeah, I would agree that, you know, we we're very fortunate that we have not had to deal with some of the things that other parents have had to deal with. Our son gave us a little bit more trouble than our daughter did, but just social things, nothing that couldn't be overcome. But because we had that transparency, he still felt like he could come to us, or when we found out things, he didn't try to hide the things that were going on.

SPEAKER_01 14:07

Right. Well, that's good. I I don't think I can I don't think I can say that I uh was able to do that.

SPEAKER_05 14:17

Well it's and that's one of the things. Yeah, James, and I know that uh you know I I don't want to leave parents out there thinking, well, if I didn't do it, well then oh well, right? We recognize that there's a lot of different spectrums when it comes to the relationships that parents have with their children. And I think especially in the context of the empty nester, I think that's where it gets really important is understanding your role as the parent evolving into coach and mentor, and to whatever degree your kid allows you to be that coach and mentor in their life, being available, but if they're closing you out, well then you're just remain available. And also recognizing that the couple that you are as an empty nester is its own entity as well, and spending the time to focus on that can also pay dividends with a relationship with the kids. So I don't want parents that are right now going, well, I don't have any relationship with my kids. It's not over. Maintain that relationship, be that model of what it means to love each other as a couple, and that can over time create a vision for that child of okay, this is what it means to be in a loving family, and doors can open. There's no miracle, there's no magic wand here, but there can be paths forward even when there aren't paths today.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

Well, I think I think in some ways, and I'll have to just speak for myself. I think I think when our kids come to us and shock us with news, like when my son came out and said that he was gay, you know, I didn't have any I didn't have a radical emotionally charged response to him. I mean, I did tell him that I didn't understand that lifestyle and and but that's he was still my son and I still loved him, right? And I just want him to be happy. And it's like, you know, we're we're Christians and you know, we we have a a I want to say a uh Christ worldview or a faith-filled worldview. Our kid all our kids were raised in the church, you know, and it the closer they got to 18, the further away they got from that. They chose to to reject all of that. And as a parent, I'm saddened by that, you know, but I believe that as time goes on, I believe that I think that they're gonna come around full full circle, right? Uh and I don't want to I don't want to get off into the theology of all that, but I believe that we as parents uh tried to live the type of life that would exemplify our faith, right? And so um and we had, you know, I I think that as parents we have a vision in our head of what who we want our children to be, right? As they're as they're transitioning from preteens to teenagers to adults, going to going off to college if they do, or trade school or whatever. You know, we we have a vision in our heads of who we want our children to be. Like my dad wanted me to be the TV man in Quinlan, Texas. You know, he worked at Terrell State Hospital, both my parents did. You know, he had a big, huge storage building in the backyard, and it's from six at night until about eleven or midnight. He um um he worked on TV sets, you know. So he was a TV man, and he wanted to pass that along to me. He wanted me to inherit that from him. And I I was so far away from that, it wasn't it was like a polar opposite. I was like, I I have no desire to do that, you know. And I know that hurt his feelings probably, you know, looking back, now I'm 63, you know, I can look back, you know, hindsight's always 2020, right? But um, I think I think parents um because we have this vision of who we we envision them of being, and then they and then they run that little red wagon off the trail and they go, No, I don't want to be, I don't want to be the TV man, I want to be whatever it is, right? Uh and and so I think it's important that that uh we allow our adult children to individualize and and and have the autonomy that they deserve.

SPEAKER_04 18:21

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 18:22

And I think prayer, we raised our children in the church as well, and we were both raised that way, you know. But yeah, once they left for college, neither one of them stepped foot in the church, you know, for all those years. And I've always prayed for my children, but I specifically started praying that our son would meet a girl that would help bring him back into church and this past year he has, and they have you know, will go to church on the days that they can. And so I think the praying has really helped me get through some of that. And and I never bothered them about it. I never said, Why are you not going to church? Why are you you know, I I've never done that, but just continually to pray for them and to pray for that relationship that would hopefully bring them back into that place.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

Well, I think God has a plan for them, as He does for all of us, and I think the best thing we can do as parents with relations to faith-based things is to step back, you know. The Holy Spirit's the one that does the uh convicting and the changing. I can't change I have a hard time keeping track of who I am and becoming a better person, better husband, better whatever. You know, much much less trying to be that for my children. I can't do that. Right. And uh so switching tracks a little bit, being empty nesters is not a it's not on the top of the hit parade on my podcast. We just I haven't had the opportunity to really dig into that. And so that's one of the reasons I'm so happy that you're here, and so that we can kind of dig into uh what it means to be an empty nester, uh the transition from being you know, the house mom, you know, the uh whatever you want to call it, you know, care caretaker, caretaker, caregiver, you know. So so a lot of times parents uh send the kids off to college and all of a sudden it's like you said, the loud quiet. You know, the house is empty, it's quiet, the kids are not there, their friends are not running in and out of the house, you know, the all the you're not taking them to events anymore, you know. Talk to us a little bit about uh the transition that y'all had to y'all y'all experienced.

SPEAKER_05 20:47

I think one of the things about the myth, the the the the the theme, the brand of empty nest is that most of what you read out there is about how sad it is, how emotional it is, how how much has been taken from you. And and that is true. And the other side of it is incredible thriving, incredible freedom, incredible happiness, incredible new opportunity. And as we were entering into that empty nest phase, we only tended to hear that first half of it. And I think what we have come to realize as we're going through this is really focusing and understanding how to actually thrive in the empty nest is a part of the messaging that's missing. But my gosh, I gotta tell you, yes, I have cried more in the empty nest than I probably had in the prior 20 years. But I have experienced such incredible enjoyment in this phase as we've gone through it.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

There's a grieving process, isn't there? Because there's there's loss, right?

SPEAKER_04 21:47

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:49

The law you haven't lost your children, but their presence is not there and it's not felt as much, and you're not interacting with them. And so one of the things I hear is is that when kids go off to college or you become an empty nester, a lot of 50-year-olds are getting divorced now. Because they're because they're looking at each other going, yeah, they're going, Well, who who are you? Yes. And why are you in my house? And what am I supposed to do with you now?

SPEAKER_03 22:17

And that is one thing when I meet the younger parents, I try to tell them I was a mentor mom in a group of moms with preschoolers, and I try to emphasize with them, you have to still prioritize your relationship with your husband. Yes, I understand your children take up so much of your time, but even if it's just when you put them to bed, then y'all have dinner together one night a week. Just something to just keep that connection going because it's right, that the gray divorce has become a huge thing. And I have people that I know that are going through it as soon as their last one left for college. You know, they just they have nothing in common anymore. And so it's very tragic. And so if you can start working on that at a younger age and stage of life, it will benefit you in the end.

SPEAKER_05 23:14

We were shocked by the numbers when we did an episode about gray divorce. We were shocked by the stats of the prevalence of it. We've heard it anecdotally, but then when you see the stories there, and even if you have a good relationship, even if you did everything that Clancy said, the risk is still there because there was some, especially well, certainly in North Texas, and I imagine in a lot of places around the country and around the world, your primary social life, your primary activities are kid-based. If your kid is in drill team, if your kid is on the soccer team, you're doing those things. Those are your friends, the parents of the other kids. And then suddenly that's gone. And finding, and I'm not even going to say finding because that sounds passive, choosing to refine the connection and re-choose, I'll say that, activities that you can do together. I mean, we'll get real practical here. We looked at each other the first few weekends and said, we have to do something and almost listed out this is what we're going to do each of these weekends. It got smoother over time, but boy, there at the beginning, it was a conscious choice. We have to do things together.

SPEAKER_03 24:18

Well, the genesis of our podcast is because I said, Hey, let's do this together. This will give us a forced thing to have to connect on on a weekly basis. And now we've, you know, turned it into something even more.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

So how long how long have you had the loud, quiet I can't read the rest of that podcast? Emptiness living. Yeah, there you go. How long have we now had that podcast?

SPEAKER_03 24:45

We started the week after we got back from taking our daughter to college her freshman year, so going on two years.

SPEAKER_05 24:53

Gotcha. So I mean it really is like we're a couple weeks away from that moment where. It is the two years that we sort of declared we have become empty nesters.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

There you go. And uh did that did that kind of how did that realization happen? Or did it happen all at once after they left the house, after you took them to college, or or did you kind of transition into it and recognize here comes the train, what are we gonna do?

SPEAKER_05 25:19

Well, there's a story. Are you gonna tell it or am I?

SPEAKER_03 25:22

Oh, about in the car.

SPEAKER_05 25:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:24

So our daughter's senior year of high school, our our son, they're three years apart. So we had already taken him to college. But her senior year, one night we were out, it was probably spring semester, and it was just the two of us. We had gone out on a date, and on the way home, I just broke down and I looked at him and I said, What if when she leaves we don't like each other? You know, because you're missing that kid glue that has connected you and it shook him, and it shook me as well, but I was the one saying it. And you know, we I think that really made us realize okay, we have to make sure that we are focused on each other as well as this.

SPEAKER_05 26:13

This was, I look to it as this was the moment, and there will be other moments that we make decisions, but this was the critical one that probably defined whether we were going to be a gray divorce statistic or a thriving empty nest couple. It was scary. I I still kind of get a little sick in my stomach. No spouse wants to be told by their wife, hey, what if we don't like each other? Right.

SPEAKER_02 26:37

And at that point It was after two martinis. Let me just say that.

SPEAKER_01 26:43

Was after what?

SPEAKER_02 26:44

It was after two martinis. So that's fine. Two martinis.

SPEAKER_05 26:49

It didn't change how it hurt me, though. And and I think that's what I would say to parents of adult children, empty nesters. It a lot of these are choices. That moment happened. That emotion was real. That emotion shouldn't like it would have been worse had Clancy squashed that emotion. Instead, Clancy felt that emotion, she expressed that emotion, and we then talked about it and decided what to do with that. And that, gosh, that's probably something I'd say to you're a parent of an adult children, you're an empty nester. It's that, it's that idea of you're going to feel what you feel, but don't squash it. Do so, and that's what we chose to do. We did something with it. And that over time it evolved into realizing, hey, let's do a podcast together. It and not that suddenly that was, again, the magic wand. It's this almost daily, weekly, monthly realization that we have to choose to do things together, to communicate together so that we can be a thriving emptiness couple.

SPEAKER_01 27:51

Well, the marriage relationship changes when you become an empty nester, but it should and can go on. And it's like you said, it's a you have to you have to it's a choice. It doesn't happen through osmosis, there's no magic talisman that is there. You know, you have to you have to re reacquire that relationship y'all had before the family even started, right? I mean we you you meet each other, you fall in love, whatever happens, happens, right? And then all of a sudden you're parents. And and that's why people are, you know, I don't know when it started, but everybody was like, you know, in the church realm, you hear about people uh choosing to have a date night. You know one one day a week we're gonna get a babysitter and we're gonna go out and be instead of mom and dad, we're gonna be James and Katie or uh what are your names? Rick and Clancy? Is it Rick and Clancy? There we go. All right, I had I can think about your names there for a second. But yeah, you have to you have to reacclimate each other, you know. We have you have to you have to to go back to the beginning, you have to, you know, why why did we fall in love? Why what was the attraction? And of course, love changes over the years, it matures, you know, and uh all of that.

SPEAKER_05 29:12

So and it is if you think about it from almost a calendar or a a time perspective, if you're raising your kids, let's say you one kid, right, and and they leave the house at 18, that's 18 years, and if you have multiple kids, then you're actually a parent for a this period of time, let's call it 18 to 25 years. You probably didn't date 18 to 25 years before you became a parent. Right. So you actually it's harder than I think people really realize to go back to if more of your life was lived in a as a parent than as a dating married couple, you really have to tap into that period of time because your your inertia, what sits inside of your body and mind without choosing to do anything is just being a parent. Being a couple was a lot shorter of a period of time, and it can be hard to tap into that.

SPEAKER_01 30:06

Right. So, what steps did you take to reconnect as a couple other than date night?

SPEAKER_03 30:12

Yeah, we well, starting the podcast was a huge one because that basically forced us into almost a therapy session every week.

SPEAKER_01 30:22

Well, is that what this is?

SPEAKER_03 30:23

Yeah. She's she's not kidding.

SPEAKER_05 30:25

A lot of times we are a lot of times we actually might find ourselves not really liking each other. And then we come into the studio and we hit record and we process that feeling while we're hitting recording. There you go. There's nothing wrong with that.

SPEAKER_03 30:37

And I think at the beginning, like Rick alluded to, we tried to jam activities in, which was what we needed at that time. We've done that. We've also since then, you know, both left our previous jobs and have decided to go into business together. So that was another thing that I don't know if it's going to end up being a wise choice.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

I was gonna say, I don't know that we can use that as a recommendation, but it is something that we did. It's a possible option, huh?

SPEAKER_03 31:07

But I think you just have to find things that interest you as a couple, but then also keep your independence. Yes. You don't have to be glued to the hip just because your children aren't here anymore, because we both have other groups that we go out with and do things with.

SPEAKER_05 31:24

Have other interests and I think that's something that it really there's more freedom to. I know that I will speak to me. I feel more comfortable doing that in the emptiness than I did when we were parents because parenting took up so much time that what precious time was left over after parenting, there was guilt that I felt if I didn't dedicate it to Clancy. Now that we really just have all the time in the world, having that independence allows us to still maintain a balance of sanity almost of just who you are, but then also who you are as a as a couple. And something that you said in there, kiddo, that really resonated with me is find what is important to y'all. Like for us, travel, it has been an important part of who we were as a couple. It was even sort of a saving moment in elements when our marriage would get at rocky times. And so we've chosen to really prioritize travel in the emptiness. We have the freedom to do it, we have the time available to do it, and so we choose to do that. It doesn't have to be travel, though. It's that find what interests you as a couple and then prioritize it because it is way too easy to sit on the couch and scroll or watch TV or whatever that might be, as opposed to finding out what it is that connects y'all.

SPEAKER_01 32:39

Right. That's good. How has your understanding of parenting adult children evolved?

SPEAKER_03 32:44

It's probably still evolving. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:46

I'm glad you said that.

SPEAKER_05 32:48

Because it's definitely not past tense.

SPEAKER_03 32:49

No, it is it is definitely different. We call it parenting from afar because our children both chose to go out of state for school, and we would visit them. We tried to go once a month. Um, because we do we had very close relationships and still do with our kids, but it is it was very, very difficult with our daughter because she had a horrible roommate situation her freshman year.

SPEAKER_01 33:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 33:20

And there were there were a couple of times that I was like about to get in my car to head to the airport and just buy a ticket to go out there because she was just hurting so and getting hurt so badly. We had to just I felt like at that point our marriage and our emptiness that had just pretty much started was consumed again with the parenting role. And she's very independent, she took care of most things on her own. But when you hear your child hurting, you just want to be there for them. And so I think that that distance, it's hard. And it's you just have to figure out how to do it.

SPEAKER_05 34:02

It's it's really hard when you're hearing your your kid or have trouble even forming sentences because they're so upset on a phone.

unknown 34:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 34:09

When you're sitting in a room, you can put a hand on a shoulder, you can hug, you can just be present and learning how to be present. And you have there were some tactical things that we did. Some people say food is isn't love. Well, we do. Food is love, and so cookie deliveries or things that would be that sort of we can't be there, but here's some comfort that just represents who your parents are. I think a vital part of that though was not jumping on the plane, right? And I don't think I don't think that was ever actually going to happen. I didn't have to pull any keys out of anybody's hands or anything like that. That was that was a real growth moment for our daughter, too. So not only was it a growth moment for us as parents, okay, we can be a mentor, we can be a coach, but we aren't going to be the actor in this. It was an incredible moment of growth for her where she had to step up and do that.

SPEAKER_03 35:00

And I think another thing that I wouldn't tell parents is at this point and at that age, you can ask them, are you looking for me to give you an answer, a solution, or are you just wanting me to listen and give you my thoughts? What do they want from you?

SPEAKER_05 35:20

And we've heard different answers at different times. Having clear communications is good. And and to have the communication in the difficult moments requires the communication in the plain moments as well. And our children are different. Most people's children are different. And the communication styles between both children are different. And we've had to figure out how to adapt as parents from afar to be communicating to them in a way that is the way they want to do, but also if one were more distant than the other, making sure that well, maybe we're initiating, making sure that we're the ones keeping that channel open so that the difficult moments are easier to handle.

SPEAKER_03 36:02

Yeah. I mean, I've had to look at our son and say, I'm not your frat, bro. Some of the things you're telling me I don't want to know. So yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 36:15

So yes, good to have an open relationship with your kids and great to have boundaries. Yes, boundaries is a huge topic. So as I'm listening to this, I'm thinking that there are some parents out there that are helicopter parents. They're helicopter parents while the kids are living at home, and then they they jump in their jet helicopter and they try to rush to their aid and and be there to fix all problems. And it sounds like y'all were not doing that.

SPEAKER_03 36:42

No, we've always tried to be as hands-off and let them figure things out, even when they were younger. I was never the one to email a teacher or call the teacher. That was not, I tried to put that responsibility on them unless there was a case that we needed to step in. But we've always tried to give them their independence.

SPEAKER_05 37:07

And I think that's actually the challenge. I don't, I would imagine, James, that there's not a helicopter parent out there that recognizes themselves as a helicopter parent. And what Clancy said right there, I think is the is the key distinction of knowing when it is that you have to step in. And and we had someone on our podcast last week that told the story of their daughter was going to make a choice that they knew was the wrong choice, but they let them make that wrong choice and effectively were on standby for when that call came in and said, I've made the wrong choice, come rescue me. And that was that's not helicopter parenting, that's rescuing your family member at a point that your family member needs that rescue. The helicopter parent would have said, You can't do that thing.

SPEAKER_04 37:50

Right.

SPEAKER_05 37:50

Right.

SPEAKER_01 37:51

True. Again, we have to give them, you know, allow them to have that autonomy and and uh let them to be be, you know, an adult and make those decisions.

SPEAKER_03 38:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:02

Sometimes they're gonna make bad, you know. Lord, I look, I was a raging dumpster fire between the ages of probably about 25 and 30, you know, or or maybe a little bit before 30. So it's a it's only by the grace of God I'm sitting here talking today.

SPEAKER_03 38:16

You know, and I can attest to that too.

SPEAKER_05 38:19

So failure is frequently a much better teacher than success. Yeah. And it's really hard, especially when you see it coming, right? To let your kids fail. And I think what we have said about failure is is it going to be a catastrophic life destroying failure? And if we see those flashing red lights, then we would find ourselves stepping in. Thankfully, I can't think of a moment that that would happen, but that's sort of our delineation is is this going to actually catastrophically cause their life to fail? Or is this a teaching failure that will be a disappointment? Maybe it sets them back. Maybe they don't get to achieve a particular goal in life that they intended to achieve, but it doesn't, quote, destroy their life. Right. That's where I see the delineation between helicopter and rescue is we're never going our and our kids, we're never going to let them just destroy their lives as best as we can. But we're certainly going to let them fail and learn their own lessons.

SPEAKER_01 39:18

Well, I know there's I know there are parents out there that are not helicopter not helicopter. I gotta get away from the airport. They they uh they may or may not be empty nesters, and they're dealing with adult children that are struggling with addictions of different types.

SPEAKER_03 39:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 39:36

And so we all know that you know, addictions not properly addressed or or providing them with the resources they need for getting treated for that, it can be a bad thing. It can be a life-ending thing. And uh as as parents, you know, you can provide you can provide all the resources you want if you're able to, uh, but until your child, your adult child engages themselves and wants to make a course correction, right? You throw as much you can throw as much money as you want to at the problem, but if if they're not willing to do what it takes to to change and get the help that they need, yeah, unfortunately things can turn out you know, in a way that that you would not like.

SPEAKER_04 40:29

You know?

SPEAKER_01 40:31

And I'm not trying to be grim or anything, but you know, that I know there's parents out there that are trying to be the best parent they can possibly be, and they're trying to help in every way that they can, and they're at their wits' end because the adult child is you know in a grip with this thing that they can't break free from, you know.

SPEAKER_03 40:51

Yeah. I can't I can't imagine what those parents go through on a daily basis.

SPEAKER_01 40:56

Right.

SPEAKER_03 40:56

Yeah. I mean, I feel for anyone that's in that situation.

SPEAKER_05 41:00

And I know that I echo what Clancy says there that I just I can't imagine. We certainly can't offer any sort of wisdom there. I just pray for those families that are going through that. I can channel what one of our pastors at our church has said, and that is you equip your child in the best way possible, but when they're adults, it's their life, it's their choice. And while you may feel this reflection on yourself or you may feel it and you grieve or and hurt for your child, ultimately they're going to be the ones that make their own decisions. And that can be very hard. I'm not here to be so glib and like, you know, just blow it off. It's your kid making a decision. But the reality is it's their decisions, their choice. And as a parent, having to release that can be incredibly hard.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

Right. So here's a fun question. What advice do you have for parents in the sandwich generation? What is the sandwich generation?

SPEAKER_05 41:57

So the sandwich generation is talking about how you're still caring for your kids. And even as NFT Nesters, right, you still are caring for your adult kids. You your entire podcast is about parenting adult children. And when you're in that moment that you're having to care for the generation above you, so your parents or other elements of your family that are older than you. And so you feel sandwiched between those worlds. And while I'm the one who answered that, a lot of this sandwich falls, oddly enough, to the wife in many situations. It is primarily the woman that is the women of the U.S. are the ones that are experiencing this at a much higher rate than the men are.

SPEAKER_03 42:39

But in our situation, because Rick's mom had Alzheimer's and passed away of Alzheimer's last year, you know, a lot of that fell on you and your sister to some degree. And so having to take over, you know, they kind of split the roles. One was handling the finances, one was handling some of the care, and along with her excellent husband, you know. So yeah, so that that really did tear at us both, you know, because we were it was the same time that we were dealing with our daughter going through the situation at school. And then we're also trying to get down to Austin once a month to see Rick's mom and make sure everything there is okay. And and so, yeah, it's it's you're kind of caught in between and being a caretaker for both sides.

SPEAKER_05 43:35

This was an era when our oldest was graduating from college, so we were supposed to be kind of celebrating that era and planning for that. And what it does when you're sandwiched like that is you almost have to live split personality. If you allow the the time and the schedule and the priorities are always going to be a challenge. But in the moment when I'm in, we were interacting with our kids. In the time that we were interacting and caring for my mom as she was going through that, her Alzheimer's decline, we were focused on that. And I think, and I'm not, it sounds cleaner than it actually was. I think you have to do that though, as the sandwich generation. And I probably should have led with this. The most important part is make sure you're taking care of yourself too. There were times that Clancy and I would realize all we have talked about for the last X days has been caregiving or something along those lines. And we weren't prioritizing time as a couple. And so that sandwich generation steals time because you're caring for above and below. If you don't prioritize caring for yourself, you'll do worse at caring for above and below.

SPEAKER_01 44:52

Yeah, self-care is a huge topic on this podcast. And uh we like to say that that self-care is not selfish, it's it's it's really required, and you you really need to do whatever you can to break away and do whatever it is you need to do to kind of regroup and refill yourself and experience the emotions you need to experience and you know, come around and rejuvenate yourself. And you can't fill somebody else's cup when yours is empty. Absolutely. And I I would imagine you another skill that you would have to uh acquire is the uh the ability to compartmentalize things.

SPEAKER_03 45:27

For sure.

SPEAKER_01 45:28

Right.

SPEAKER_03 45:29

I mean, his mom passed away during graduation week. So oh yeah, so we had to definitely compartmentalize because you know, we were out there for the entire week. There were several ceremonies, parties, and so yes, we did have to do just we knew that his mom would not want us to leave and do anything differently than what we were doing. So, yes, we did big time compartmentalize that week.

SPEAKER_05 46:01

Uh, she it's it to put a point on it, Tanner. One of his graduations was Monday. My mom passed away on Tuesday, and then we had a party on Wednesday, and then we had another graduation Thursday and Friday. So it was very much and I think it would take a professional therapist to to answer whether it was the right choice or not. I know for us it was the right choice. For me, it was the right choice to say, I cannot do anything about this. We were in Tempe, Arizona. My mom passed away in Austin, Texas. We cannot do anything about this. So instead, we're just gonna like turn that switch off and we're gonna focus exclusively on celebrating because I didn't want my son to feel that we weren't celebrating this momentous occasion because of my mom's passing. Both are momentous occasions. I didn't want either to be neglected. And so we prioritized focusing on his graduation, and then we were able to compartmentalize and and launch focusing on my mom.

SPEAKER_03 47:05

And I will say one of the gifts with Alzheimer's, which I can't believe those words came out of my mouth, but is that we had all had multiple times every time we saw her, we will were able to say, you know, we love you. We, you know, we know that you know that we love you, even though we couldn't she couldn't express it. And so the kids were at peace with it because they had already said their goodbyes. And so yeah, it was at least we had that to fall back on.

SPEAKER_05 47:39

There was never any regret that we hadn't adequately spent time with my mom or said goodbye to her. And so that absolutely helped with the compart compartmentalization.

SPEAKER_01 47:51

I'm sorry for your loss. I know that was difficult.

SPEAKER_05 47:54

It's a it's a rough disease for those that have gone through it. No, it and and losing any parent under any condition, any circumstances. I am not here to compare stories. It is it's a very difficult one to go through. And so I thank you for the words there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:08

Well, I want to show your uh website to the listening audience, or in this case, the watching audience, because there's going to be a video episode of this. I'll upload it to my YouTube channel and to Rumble at some point. And because I love your website so much, I am probably going to um switch over to this provider.

SPEAKER_05 48:29

So while you're doing that, I'll I'll shout that provider out. It's actually called Podpage. And anyone who wants to know more about it, I've got a link I can share with you. It's a it's a great host for podcasts. This is our website. It is theloudquiet.com. And this is where folks, if you want to get to know a little bit more, well, actually, if you just want to listen to the podcast or watch it for sure. But in addition to that, empty nesting can be kind of a lonely space. And so we've created a community for empty nesters on Facebook, the Loud Quiet, Empty Nest Living. And you're able to get to that from the podcast as well. In addition, there's a newsletter that you can sign up for as well. There's a couple of freebies that come along with that, little tips and tricks that can help you at different stages along the way of being an empty nester. It's all there at theloudquiet.com.

SPEAKER_01 49:18

That's awesome. That that sounded it almost sounded like an advertisement.

SPEAKER_05 49:23

Well, we have been behind the microphone. I guess I've been doing this for four or five years. Clayton and I've been doing it for two years, so very comfortable talking about something. And it's easy to talk about something that you care about. This is not some sort of economic engine. This is about helping empty nesters develop a community together because loneliness is such a significant risk inside of this stage of life when it's actually a stage of life that sh could and should be the most exciting and the most fun. And I gotta tell you, we're having a lot of fun in this phase right now.

SPEAKER_01 49:54

Well, y'all are y'all are absolutely bringing a lot of good information to empty nesting parents that are listening in the listening audience. And uh it's wonderful that you two uh can partner up together to to do this, you know, and to tell your stories and to provide hope and direction to people that probably need it. You know, because it's not it's not a topic that's discussed a lot, I don't think. Right, no. We agree.

SPEAKER_03 50:20

There is tons of books about what you're supposed to do from age zero to eighteen, but then there's not much else after that.

SPEAKER_01 50:29

Right, absolutely. All right, so I'm gonna bring this to a conclusion, I think. Uh I appreciate you being on the podcast. I've enjoyed it thoroughly. Uh, and I'll say, and that brings us to the end of another episode of ABC's of Parenting Adult Children. A big thank you to Rick and Clancy for sharing their experience, wisdom, and heart with us today. Their insights remind us that parenting doesn't stop when our kids grow up. It sent simply changes shape. Uh that's going to wrap up this episode. I hope today's conversation gave you some encouragement and practical steps you can try in your own family. If you found this helpful, would you do me a favor and hit that subscribe button, share the episode with a friend who's also navigating the parenting journey and leave a quick review. It really helps others find this podcast. I'd also love to hear your stories. How are you working through these challenges with your adult children? Send me an email at talkpac at proton.me. That's talkpac at proton.me, or connect with me on social media. Links are in the show notes. All right. Thank you for the privilege of your time to the listening audience and Rick and Clancy. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you, James.

SPEAKER_03 51:38

Thank you, James. That was great.

SPEAKER_00 51:41

Please tune in next week for another episode of our podcast on parenting adult children.