The Myth of the Super Mom: Embracing Imperfection with Dr Sue McCreadle

SPEAKER_00 0:14

And we need to struggle that it comes along with the question.

SPEAKER_04 0:25

Hey friends, welcome back to the ABC of Parenting Adult Children podcast. I'm so excited about today's guest, Dr. Sue McCreedel. McCready?

SPEAKER_01 0:34

McCready? Yep.

SPEAKER_04 0:35

McCready. There we go. She's not only a skilled physician, she's someone who truly understands the heart of parenting through life's big transitions. We're going to talk about how to keep those family bonds strong, even as our kids spread their wings. You're going to love this. So let's jump in. Dr. Sue, thank you for being on the podcast today.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Thanks for having me, James. I appreciate the opportunity. I love what you're doing.

SPEAKER_04 0:59

Okay. Please introduce yourself to the listening audience.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Yeah, I'm Dr. Sue McCready. I'm a pediatric physician and coach for midlife women in their 40s, 50s, and 60s. And yeah, I'm also a mama of three. At the time of this recording, my kids are almost 16, 18, and 21. So two are in college, one in high school. And yeah, married for 23 years through it all.

SPEAKER_04 1:24

Oh wow, awesome. My my wife and I are working on 36. We have we have four children. Two of which two of which are no longer with us, unfortunately. But anyway. Yeah, parenting's tough. And and I love that you focus on helping moms and women. You know, in their 40s, 50s, and 60s. I can only imagine that that's a a tough time period for moms, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:55

Yeah, a lot of trans a lot of a lot of transitions. I think of midlife sort of like our second adolescence, if you remember adolescence.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Things, our hormones are changing. We're feeling uncomfy in our bodies. We're usually transitioning through different types of relationships, maybe experience intimacy for the first time, right? There's just a lot of things going, figuring out who we are in the world, identity-wise, how we can contribute. And that's also happening in midlife, right? Relationships, some are ending, some are rekindling after the kids have left the nest, right?

SPEAKER_04 2:33

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Some people are winding down their first career, maybe starting a second passion project. Yeah, there's just a lot of transitions that get to happen during this time.

SPEAKER_04 2:44

So I have two sets of talking points, and I'm I'm just gonna read them and you can decide which one you want to go with. But the first one is mindset eight easy ways to achieve goals without a stress spiral. Or motherhood, how failing to be super mom can actually be the best thing for your gosh, definitely the second one. You like the second one? Okay. So I uh my wife and I started a a uh private Facebook support group for parents back in 2015 when we had two teenagers still living at home. And I was I was desperately trying to stay out of prison. And uh I don't look good in orange and I didn't want a boyfriend, right? So I um so I started it and we had like, I don't know, eight members at first, eight to ten members. So that's grown to like 1.4,000 at this point. And uh uh there's only like I don't know, 10 or 15 percent of them that are actually active on the support group. But so I started this um podcast as a to kind of compliment that, you know, to give uh moms uh and dads if they're listening uh something to listen to when they're driving around running errands or cleaning the house or whatever it is they might be doing, right?

SPEAKER_02 4:01

Mm-hmm. So I love it.

SPEAKER_04 4:05

Yeah. So motherhood, how failing to be super mom can actually be the best thing for your kids. So tell us who tell us who super mom is.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

Super mom is, I can only speak for myself. Super mom is the mom that wants to be it all, right? She wants to be having an awesome career and also being that incredible mom at home. She's the whiz in the kitchen, she's baking up yummy treats, she's also bringing all the things to school, participating in all the activities, she swimming in the pool, all the things, right? Super moments. I guess it never ends, right? It never ends. The list is endless. Being everything for everyone. That's what I felt like a super mom is. And uh yeah, my joke, James, is that after you know, I'm like a great mom to one, a good mom to two, and a fair mom to three, because as you add more into the mix, it's just impossible to meet everybody's needs. Yeah, all the time.

SPEAKER_04 5:14

Yeah, I've I've heard stories about parents that have, you know, they have their first child, right? And so they're just like on top of everything, and they don't you they want to make sure you they don't eat off the floor, you know, they don't put anything in their mouths, you know, they eat eat right, have the best diapers, you know, they're just, you know, they're the concierge, concierge parents, right? They just do the do the dead level best they can for everything for the child. Well, then child number two comes up or comes along, and all of a sudden concierge parenting kind of floats out the window because all of a sudden you've got two mouths to feed, two two kids to pay attention to, to make sure they're not, you know, sticking things in the light sockets and you know outlets and and all of the things that we know that babies and toddlers can get into in a moment's notice. You know, you just turn your back or get distracted for five minutes, and all of a sudden it's quiet in the house, and you're like, oh crap, it's quiet. That means they're up to something and you gotta go find them, right? Like, please don't burn down the house. And then child three comes along, right? And then all of a sudden, you don't care if they, you know, there's like a second rule. If they pick something up off the floor at MM or something, you're like, Yeah, just blow it off and you can have it. And uh so, you know, all almost all cautions, you know, to the wind at that point. I don't think that story.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

And absolutely. I mean, I felt like that. I also felt like as a working mom after my first, I really didn't want to go back to work. I was like, I don't want to leave this precious little baby, right? Right. And, you know, who's gonna watch this little baby while I'm away, right? So there was a lot of that feeling. After the second one, I was like, okay, I think I can go back to work now. After the third one, I was like, I'm like running, running back to work.

SPEAKER_04 7:02

I've like running out the door, huh?

SPEAKER_01 7:04

You have the hard job, I have the easy job. Yeah, it's just it's a lot, it's a lot, it's intense and also amazing. It is amazing. It has its roller coasters for sure.

SPEAKER_04 7:14

One of the topics that comes up here a lot is self-care. And we tell people, especially the moms, self-care is not selfish. And you you have to take time out for yourself and do whatever you need to do to get re centered and fill up the cup again and go to Starbucks or go work out or you know, go walk go for a walk and enjoy nature or whatever whatever those things are that constitutes or makes up self-care for you, you know, it's fine. And uh so it's it's really important. And uh not to dis not to not to say anything bad about dads, but it seems like moms are predominantly the caregivers in the home. You know, they do a they do a line share of a lot of that, take tending to the children and getting them dressed and making sure they're clean and not eating stuff off the floor, having a good meal and packing their lunches when they go to school and taking them from one event to the next, like you said, and all the many things that encompass us uh being a parent. And when you're when you're in the middle of all that, you don't I don't I don't think you really think about all the things that you're doing all the time. It's just kind of a kind of second nature and a habit that you get into and you just kind of do all those things until all of a sudden you're burnt out.

SPEAKER_01 8:38

You're burnt out, you're resentful, you're bitter.

SPEAKER_04 8:42

Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

I mean, I think that's one of the big things is like the sign of not having a of not having a full cup is that you're bitter, you're burnt out, you're resentful. You're wondering, why am I doing everything for everyone? Where's anybody else? Right? And the sign of having a full cup is I feel great giving. This feels fun. How can I give more?

SPEAKER_04 9:05

Right.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Sometimes I think self-care can look like, especially when your kids are young, like hiding out in the bathroom. That's what I did.

SPEAKER_02 9:14

There you go.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

Go to the bathroom, shut the door, and take a deep breath. Everything's gonna be okay. This moment is going to pass, and we're gonna have a new moment in just a minute, right? So I think self-care can not have to look so hard or like you gotta hire someone to like go out and take care of yourself. I mean, self-care can literally be a breath in the bathroom with the door shut.

unknown 9:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:36

That's true. The small moments, right?

SPEAKER_01 9:39

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 9:41

Um I think that uh a lot of couples, and you hear it maybe predominantly in the church, maybe, uh, but you know, a lot of couples uh they try to keep the relationship going between the parents, you know, the mom and dad, and they had they hire a babysitter and they have a you know a parents' night out where they can go to a movie, go get dinner or whatever, and kind of uh focus on who they are, you know, as as uh husband and wife and um keep that going, you know, because you can kind of lose sight of that.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 10:16

One of the other topics we talk about is empty nesters, you know. The kids grow up, they're gone, they're in college, all of a sudden the house is deathly quiet. And uh then you look at each other and go, Well, what are we supposed to do now? Or even worse, you know, you hear about gray divorce, you know, and they look at each other and go, Who are you? Why are you in my house? What do what do we have in common anymore? And uh unfortunately, gray divorce is a real thing, you know, and it's so it's something to kind of get ahead of, if possible.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

I agree. I think the way to get ahead of that is really fostering intimacy and prioritizing it all along the way. And intimacy isn't necessarily sexual, it's just about intimity you see, like being vulnerable, being open, staying connected, um, prioritizing the other, your partner, what are their needs? How can I support you? And vice versa, leaning into each other in the marriage versus outsourcing.

SPEAKER_02 11:15

Right.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:17

Right. And I think I think us guys probably struggle with that a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 11:23

We don't we don't really talk about that that much. Like talk about the feeling. Guys don't like to talk about their feelings.

SPEAKER_01 11:29

One-word answers, like I get from the boys in my practice after I pull them out in the pediatric office. I like ask them a question, they're like, boop, one answer. One word answer. Like, give me something, give me something to work with. Yeah, I get it. And also there's lots of ways to foster, you know, connection and intimacy without words.

SPEAKER_04 11:47

Do what now?

SPEAKER_01 11:48

Do foster intimacy and connection without words. You know, eighty-ninety percent of communication is nonverbal.

SPEAKER_04 11:54

Right. Well, one of the things that that uh hopefully moms and dads learn, you know, is everybody has a love language. You know. And uh the longer you're married, hopefully the more in tune you are with that, you know. And if not, that's gonna cause problems, you know, and you have to you have to learn what your your significant other's love language is and what makes them feel loved and completed and validated and accepted, all of that. And uh so I think that's an important thing too.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

I think the other thing on in terms of also not only with your partner, but also with your children is understanding what their top needs are. So one of the frameworks that I've learned from a a teacher of mine, Tony Robbins, is that we from human needs psychology is we all share the same six human needs, but we prioritize them differently and we fulfill those needs differently. So the six human needs are the need for certainty, meaning I can be safe, comfortable, experience more pleasure than pain, the need for variety, because if all we have is certainty, we get bored. So we also need some variety, some spicy life, the need for significance, significance is being seen, heard, or needed, the need for um love and and connection, love being unconditional acceptance and connection being belonging, part of something, and the need for giving. And then the sixth need is the need for contribution. I mean, the fifth is growth, and the sixth is contribution. So, one of the things that I really learned in terms of fostering connection and intimacy within with a partner, and also anybody that you want to be in a relationship with is that you get to meet their top. So, what do you think, James? What are your top two needs from that list?

SPEAKER_04 13:52

Well, say those again.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

So the first is a need for certainty that I can feel safe and comfortable, experience more pleasure than pain. The second is the need for variety, the spice of life. Things get to be different, so I don't get bored. The third is the need for significance that I can be seen and heard and needed. The fourth is the need for love and connection, fifth is growth, and sixth is contribution.

SPEAKER_04 14:24

I would say certainty and variety are probably the two things that would be at the top of my list.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

Okay. So yeah, that's that's cool. That's interesting. Yeah, so if I want to be in relation with James, that means I get to meet those top two needs in our relationship. So I don't know how how do you so that's how you get curious with your partner or your child, like knowing them and living with them, you probably have an idea of how to meet your need for certainty. You know, if you were gonna meet my need for certainty, you would be, I would, I would know, you know, um, yeah, like where you are in the world. How about that with my kids, right? It's like if I'm going somewhere and they let me know where I'm going, they're going. That meets my need for certainty, right? So really leaning in and knowing how to meet the other person's need is how you foster connection.

SPEAKER_04 15:23

Very good. I have not I have not heard the word name Tony Robbins in quite a while. Wasn't he real big in the 80s and 90s?

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Yeah, he used to be on the infomercials. He's been, you know, with a slicked back gray hair, young Tony. Yes, he's been around for a long time. I think what year we're in like 2025 at this time of this recording. So he, yes, in the 80s, 90s, he's been doing this for about 40 plus years now. He's in his 60s.

SPEAKER_04 15:52

Wow. So he's still a thing, huh?

SPEAKER_01 15:56

Oh, yeah. Yeah, him and his wife, Sage, Robbins, yeah. They still work and foster, yeah, heartfelt understanding. I feel like their mission is very much, yeah, just about love in general. That's where I learned a lot about relationships, is through those two.

SPEAKER_04 16:15

Really? So what was he doing back in the 80s and 90s? Was it wealth building or what? Something like that?

SPEAKER_01 16:22

Well, I don't know, James, because in the 80s, I was about 10.

SPEAKER_04 16:26

I guess I'm dating myself here, huh?

SPEAKER_01 16:29

I was anywhere from 10 to 18.

SPEAKER_04 16:34

I got you.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

So Tony and I were not crossing past in the 80s. I actually didn't cross past the Tony until 2019.

SPEAKER_04 16:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

Yeah, so the so whatever that makes, five years or so.

SPEAKER_04 16:48

Yeah. Well, he he certainly has a very vivacious, outgoing, uh, bubbly personality.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

Very passionate. Yeah, he's a passionate one. He's very passionate.

SPEAKER_04 16:58

So, how do you get out of a low vibe stress cycle when the busyness of life never seems to stop?

SPEAKER_01 20:04

Well, one of the ways is we just we just talked about it is really filling filling your cup, figuring out ways to fill yourself up every day. Um, and for me, that was like an evolution of as a mom. I think that's the hard thing with parenting is finding time for yourself. I don't know when you find it, James, but I find it first thing in the morning. And so that was super hard to do when the kids were young because they get up early and you have disruptive sleep. So it's very dysregulated. But for now, one of the ways that I really set my day to stay in a high vibe state is um is my morning mead time. I call it my morning me time. So in that time, that's where I'm diving into things that fill up my soul, right? Whether those are spiritual readings or astrology, tarot numerology, journaling, anything that really kind of sets me to be ready for the day, also with intention. Um, and I think that's a big thing for getting out of a low vibe state. One of the first things is changing your physiology. So, like the fastest way to get out of something is not through thinking, it's through getting into your body. And that's why so many people like take a deep breath or jump up and down or go for a walk. For me, when I'm having a hard time, I throw up my arms and I say the same thing every time. I say, I'm sculpting my soul, meaning like this is really hard, and also I'm growing because growing is one of the my top two needs. I have a high need for growth, and so you want to look for ways when you're getting out of a low vibe to a high vibe state, you want to look for ways that how to meet your need. Well, how are you meeting your needs every day, especially your top two needs, right? So minor love and connection and growth are two of my big ones. So really focusing on how am I doing that. But the fastest way is physiology. Get up and move, breathe, jump up and down, skip down the street. Like, think of how you had fun as a child. When I posed that to one of the moms, she said, Well, I used to jump, jump up and down. So if you got a mini trampoline and you jumped up and down, there's probably no way that you would stay in the same state as if you were jumping up and down. You would start to smile naturally. It's like if you do jumping jacks or if you swing on a swing, it just brings back that high vibe state.

SPEAKER_04 22:37

So, so do something that's going to help you have a little dopamine hit, huh?

SPEAKER_01 22:42

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 22:43

Yeah. I heard somebody say one time that um the way they do that is like early in the morning, they try to find something really hard to do and to tackle that. Because early in the morning you haven't had your coffee yet, and you're like, you know, you're kind of brain's in a fog and you're a little fuzzy and whatever, you know, and you're not really motivated to do anything, you know, other than maybe drink coffee and like be in a leave me alone state, right? At least that's me. That's probably not everybody.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

Yeah, I think that's a masculine way. Masculine energy definitely is like break through something that's gonna like create energy. So when I want masculine energy, I go work out. I have big weights, right?

SPEAKER_02 23:24

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 23:24

When I want to fill up with feminine energy, I lie down, I be still, I live, I do meditation, I receive. Yeah. So and I think we need both at different times.

SPEAKER_02 23:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:39

I have this great therapeutic tool, it's called a recliner.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

See, you do that too, James. You fill up through reclining.

SPEAKER_04 23:47

Yeah, uh uh, the older you get, the more you appreciate the ability to take naps. Naps are just wonderful things.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

They are. I love them.

SPEAKER_04 23:57

Yes. So um talk to me about your um meditation, the spiritual side of things, uh, the the things that you do that that help you help you fill up.

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(Cont.) The Myth of the Super Mom: Embracing Imperfection with Dr Sue McCreadle

SPEAKER_01 24:10

I think that's been an evolution for sure. Initially, I did a lot of journaling. I call it writing with spirit. I would just dump three pages and really work. Like, and if I was angry, I would just make angry little circles. And eventually I felt like another voice coming in, right? Really like helping me flip a situation, helping me see a different perspective. So I did it a lot through writing. I also love to read, so I read things that lift me up. And for me, those are any like either spiritual or personal development type books. Um, right now I really love tarot numerology. So getting tools that help you tap into your subconscious. Um, and that's because the subconscious, right, is the thing. That drives the majority of your thoughts and feelings, habits, behaviors, beliefs, and therefore your results. So really getting a way to sort of tap into that subconscious. And you can do that through meditation now is one of the big ways that I do it. So it took me a long time to accept meditation because I generally don't want to slow down enough to meditate. But now that I now that I just even I it's sort of like working out as a non-negotiable for me. It's not like, oh, I think I want to. It's like you get to today. Like, here we go, we're gonna turn it on and lie down. So yeah, those are the things that I do right now.

SPEAKER_04 26:06

So is meditation something like or equal to like prayer?

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Oh, yeah. I mean, I consider that anything that puts you in more of that slow brain wave state, right? So depending on what you're listening to, like I listen to some like binaural beats that are in a theta wave, so the brain slows down so that like it's not delta, it's like not like you're out, but you're just above that, and it gets you more into this like floaty space. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:39

That's interesting. I uh late at night I'll be uh I'll watch TV or whatever, cable and movies or what have you, and they'll have uh I'll have advertisements for these smart apps or programs that you can download onto your phone that that have different types of sound. And those sounds, the different types of sound correlates to your brain waves.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 27:04

And white noise, brown noise, blue noise, I don't know, the different types of noises that are supposed to help you quiet your mind and find a way to go to sleep.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

Yes, you can also search like binaural beats. There's lots of them for free, and they're in certain um hurts, right? So depending on where you're you want to land. So it's awesome. You can just listen to them, you know, and relax without without anything else. Or maybe maybe for you that's you know, having a prayer, like citing a prayer alongside it.

SPEAKER_04 27:40

Right. I have not I have not uh I've not really entertained that very much. I haven't thought about it. I just take Benadryl. That's what I take to go to sleep. Good old Benadryl. So um, how can women in their 40s, 50s, and 60s make midlife their most fun era ever?

SPEAKER_01 28:01

Learning how to stay in a high vibe state, which means like learning how to master. To me, that's really about mastering your mind, your mindset, right? Because the emotions that you're feeling, like a high vibe state to me is like I'm at peace, I'm in joy, I'm happy, I'm feeling good. And we've all had these states before. The trick is really like how do you sustain it for the vast majority of your day, right? Versus rough and tumbling when something comes up. So it's not like you don't feel the other states of frustration, anger, depression, sadness, loss, all those other things. I'm not saying that you don't feel them, you feel them, you know, and also though you train your mind for how to get back to a high vibe state. Like, for example, if something really crappy is going on, right? Or some crap just got tossed your way in the day, you can instantly like shift to, you know, what's great about this? What's great about this? And that's one of the ways that I do it because most people they're focusing on all the things that are wrong, right? It's like, what are you focusing on? Are you focusing on what's going wrong or what's right? Are you focusing on what you have or what you don't have? Are you focusing on the present moment or are you regretting the past or worried about the future? Right. So focus is a big part of determining the emotion that you're feeling. And then also, what are you making this mean? Right? So when something happens, all events are neutral. What is the story that you're saying about what this means? That makes sense. And then between those two things and what your body's doing, like, are you jumping up and down? Are you skipping? Are you slumped over? Like, that's what's gonna shoot out the emotion.

SPEAKER_04 29:50

Okay. Is it possible to rekindle a marriage in midlife?

SPEAKER_01 29:54

I've witnessed it. It's beautiful, it's a beautiful process, and it takes what we already talked about, which is heartfelt understanding, like leaning in and meeting the other person's needs and forgiveness. A lot of times it's forgiveness, right?

SPEAKER_04 30:09

Takes a lot of for marriage takes a lot of forgiveness.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

Hmm.

SPEAKER_04 30:13

For sure. You want to talk a little more about that?

SPEAKER_01 30:17

About forgiveness? No, about about marriage.

SPEAKER_04 30:20

No, the process of rekindling a marriage.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

Sure. I'm putting up my hair now. It's like we're digging in.

SPEAKER_04 30:26

Am I putting you on the spot? I don't mean to put you on the spot.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

No, I think rekindling a marriage, um, because I do a lot of counseling with women who are, you know, let's let's just talk about kind of like where it could be. Like the idea is we love each other and we're passionate. Passionate means we have magnetism. We want to lean in, we want to be together versus be apart.

SPEAKER_04 30:51

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

We're like when we first fell in love, it's like boom, we're coming towards each other, right? That's the ideal state. You know, it's a hard state to maintain when you've got diapers to clean, when there's trash to take out, when we gotta sign kids up for this, that, and the other thing, right? So that is the goal. The other state is that we deeply love each other, but those passionate moments are a little fleeting, right? Like they come and go, we feel them, and then they pass. So we're not really living in that. The third is that we're more like roommates, we're not really emotionally connected, we're living together out of convenience. The fourth is you've got one foot on one foot out, you're like constantly contemplating, do I stay or do I go? The fifth is you're not in a relationship, you know, and you want one. And the sixth is really like you're not in a relationship and you don't want one, which usually means like you've been pretty scarred or hurt in the past. So the process of rekindling that is really understanding where the other partner is. Like you could be at a two, and they could be at a four. So you got to understand, like, where are they? Where are you? And then also like the needs that we talked about. What are their top two needs? And where are they getting those fulfilled? Where are your top two needs and how are you fulfilling those? And if you're fulfilling them outside of the marriage versus inside of the marriage, that's where we really get to go and meet the other person's need within the marriage. It's like a little experiment and see what happens. And through that process, usually what comes up is well, I want to do that because he did that, you know, like it's a very like point finger. I don't want to go first to do that, right? And so it's all about love leads. So you get to love, you get to lead, you get to lean in and just see what happens. And it's pretty miraculous what happens. So, and either way, you get to decide because if your needs aren't met in return after meeting this person's need over and over and over and over and over again, multiple days, months, right? You're getting feedback. And the feedback is this person isn't able to or want to meet my needs. And then I get to make a decision. Do I stay or do I go? And I've seen both.

SPEAKER_04 33:16

And I I would imagine that emotional intelligence has to come into play a little bit there, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:22

And how so? Like, yeah, and I'm just curious, what do you mean?

SPEAKER_04 33:26

Well, I'm just I'm just I'm just thinking that that guys uh are tend to be or can be somewhat emotionally crippled. But we're not we're not necessarily in tune with our emotions or understand how to express ourselves or to be sensitive to our partners' needs, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:47

I think that's true for us too, for women that I work with, James. I do. I think depending on the circumstance and what's happened and if you've been hurt, that you can wall off very easily for protect for protection. And so it's really about, you know, the problem with walling off for protection is that you also wall off for receiving. So you're not really receiving, right?

SPEAKER_02 34:11

Right.

SPEAKER_01 34:11

And so it's really about how do you crack that open? How do you open yourself to be able to receive? And the first thing really for women, I feel, is filling your own cup, like going back to where we started, loving yourself through this whole process. How do you fill your cup up so that you can then give from a place of fullness, not from empty bitter resentment?

SPEAKER_04 34:36

Right. And we're and we're not responsible for the other person's happiness.

SPEAKER_01 34:41

Yeah, we are not responsible for other people's emotions, reactions. All we can do is, yeah, focus on how we respond.

SPEAKER_04 34:51

Sometimes we get into that mindset of uh, well, if you'll do this, then I'll do that.

SPEAKER_01 34:56

We call that bartering. Yeah, that's bartering. And that's not unconditional love. That's barter love. Baby love is like it's all about me, me, me, me, me. Barter love is I'll do this, you do that. Unconditional love is we're in this together. My needs are your needs. What can I do for you today?

SPEAKER_04 35:15

I think despite our best efforts, unconditional love is a huge, it's a huge task.

SPEAKER_01 35:22

It is.

SPEAKER_04 35:23

Yeah, we want to say that we understand we understand it up here in our head, you know, but understanding it here in your heart and then acting on it is two different things.

SPEAKER_01 35:32

It is.

SPEAKER_04 35:34

Uh I'm I'm so fortunate and blessed to be in the type of relationship that I'm in. Uh Kate Katie and I are we're like two peas in a pot if you watched Forrest Gump.

SPEAKER_02 35:47

The movie.

SPEAKER_04 35:48

But we we're just like on the same frequency all the time.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

Beautiful.

SPEAKER_04 35:53

And and we know we pretty much know how how each other is feeling or why we're feeling that, or you know, I don't know. It's just wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

Beautiful. Yeah. And I agree. I think unconditional love is hard even when you are two peas in the pod sometimes, right? Like it's still about what would love do in this moment, you know, what would love do in this moment, what would love say in this moment or not say? Like, hold it, zip it.

SPEAKER_04 36:21

Well, I think one of the over the years, you know, we homeschooled for a long time, and uh Katie was the primary caregiver of the of the kiddos while I was off earning the bacon, right? And uh so I I kind of got into a lazy, selfish habit of not really doing a whole lot around the house.

SPEAKER_02 36:41

Right.

SPEAKER_04 36:41

And so one of the ways that I show Katie the lover is by getting off my butt and going and cleaning the kitchen.

SPEAKER_01 36:48

Acts of service, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:49

Yeah, acts of service. She loves that. She she likes that. And I yeah, it lights her up.

SPEAKER_01 36:55

That's beautiful. And you know that. So you know that acts of service light her up, so you can do more acts of service is beautiful.

SPEAKER_04 37:02

Yeah, lip lip service is cheap. You can tell somebody you love them all day long, but if you're not showing it to them, right? If you don't show them that you love them in whatever way that you're you're supposed to, you know, then and and for different couples it's different things, right?

SPEAKER_01 37:18

Mm-hmm. It is, and that's also part of the love languages. Like we've had that talk, you know, with my girls too. Like, what do you think their love language is? What because it's also not only about how do you like to give love, right? But how how do you like to receive love, right? And they can it can flip how you want to receive, right? So versus how you want to give love. And I think that's just a beautiful conversation to have with those that you love. Make sure you're aligned so it becomes easy to do what love would do for them.

unknown 37:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:50

Right.

SPEAKER_04 37:51

And I and I think that I think that's something that you have to develop over time. It doesn't just happen overnight.

SPEAKER_01 37:58

You have to be That's what yeah, love is a journey.

SPEAKER_04 38:01

You have to be intentional, right?

SPEAKER_01 38:02

Yeah, and we're gonna mess up.

SPEAKER_04 38:04

Sure, absolutely. So, what's a simple way to navigate difficult conversations? Conflict. How do we how do we navigate conflict?

SPEAKER_01 38:13

Boy, James. It's all coming down to the same fundamental things, though.

SPEAKER_04 38:18

Right.

SPEAKER_01 38:19

Having a connected conversation is a series of steps. I don't have all the steps in front of me, but that's okay. Because the general gliding principle is the same as what we've already been talking about, which is heartfelt understanding. So it's really a series of steps where you understand a like what is your intention? Like, why is it that I even want to have this conversation? Like, what am I activated about? Right? Having a connected conversation is usually those things where you're like, oh, this is gonna be hard, you know, this might hurt, or this is just hard for me to articulate how I'm feeling. So it's usually one of those type of conversations that's when we lean in with a connected conversation. We're getting curious about like why am I activated? Because again, everything's a mirror. So if someone else is pushing your buttons, you're really pushing your own. You're unresolved within yourself around whatever they're activating. So you get to get curious in yourself about what is what's getting activated within me. So it's really about doing the work first of pointing the finger at me, like what's going on with me. And then reaching out to them very intentionally is another big step. Like you don't just like sideline the person, they don't know it's coming at them, right? And you set a date and a time, like very intentionally, and you lean in saying the intention of me having this conversation is I want to grow closer, I want to come to peace and resolution around this, right? It's something about coming together. And at the end, you may not come together, you may not resolve completely, and also though you can have a peaceful parting of ways, and I've I've experienced it both ways, and it really does feel good to have a peaceful parting of ways when both parties have been able to air the situation, right? To air and both parties are listening, one's talking, you know, first, and then you got to zip it and listen to what the other person has to say, and you're not pointing fingers like you do this, you do this. You say, I feel this. My experience of that is I felt this way. This is how that made me feel. You only just activate of how I can speak for myself, right? Because the action is neutral. Does that make sense? So yeah, and at the end, you wrap it up with a big bow of yeah, doing what love would do, saying what love would say. Maybe that's a handshake if it's at work, right? Maybe it's a big heartfelt hug if it's with your partner or child, you know, or I've had it with a friend even by phone because we're not in the same place. And it's still peaceful, you know. It it's just it's what it's what love would do. Having a conversation is a series of steps of being love and action, really.

SPEAKER_04 40:59

So let's talk about the differences between passive listening and active listening. So I'll go first.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

Yeah, like that seems like you want to say something, James, so go for it.

SPEAKER_04 41:11

Well, you're the medical professional. I thought I'd let you go take a stab at no, I'm just kidding. We we have a and maybe this is a guy thing. I don't know. Maybe it has to maybe it's more personality uh centric or something. But the the difference in my mind between passive and active listening is is passive listening, you'll get into a conversation, right? And and somebody will be saying something, and so in your mind, you're only you're only giving them 10% of your brain to listen to what they're saying. The other 90% is figuring out how you're gonna respond. Like when they take a they take a pause, you've got a response, right? And guys like to fix things, right? So so my wife will be talking to me and she'll be telling me her about her day. And you know, the whole time she's telling me about her day and all the problems that she had, whatever classroom, whatever. And in my mind, I'm thinking, okay, well, how can I fix this? And what's my response to this after she stops talking? And then she'll remind me and she'll say, I I don't, James, I don't expect you to fix this. It's not a problem for you to fix. It's just I want you to hear me. I want you to let me talk and so you can hear where I'm at, right? And so active listening is is not thinking about all your your your comebacks, right? Active listening is giving them your whole attention and paying it in listening to where they're what they're actually saying without filling it, reading between the lines. You know, we like to read between the lines when people talk to us. And you know passive listening is what I described as, you know, trying to figure out how you're gonna fix the problem and coming up with comebacks and you know, going down rabbit holes, which I'm notorious for doing. I love going down rabbit holes. I'll be talking about one thing and then I'll jump off into another rabbit hole and talk about ten other things, right? But so I I would say all of that to say this that when you're when your significant other is talking to you and you're coming together to talk about a difficult conversation, you know, uh to navigate a difficult conversation, they want to be validated. They want to pour themselves out and they want they want you to hear them and they want you to listen to what they're saying. You know, not not that that you necessarily need to fix anything, it's just you need to give them the opportunity to let you know how they feel.

SPEAKER_01 43:33

Yeah, I feel like it's about yeah, being fully present.

unknown 43:37

Right.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

Being fully present, yeah. And not problem solving. One of the things that I remind myself is is this a problem to fix or is this an experience to witness? Because I also love solving problems.

SPEAKER_02 43:52

Right.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

I'm also like problem solver. Um, and so a lot of times I'm also thinking, you know, is this just something, an experience to witness? And I feel like that's what true listening, present listening is is just holding the other person, being there, holding them, holding space for them to just air what they have to say on the situation without anything else. Like to me, that's what love would do. Just be space, hold, give grace, listen, be present.

SPEAKER_04 44:24

Some of us are better at that than others.

SPEAKER_01 44:26

It's practice for sure. For sure a practice.

SPEAKER_04 44:30

So, how do you find joy in life's unexpected downpours?

SPEAKER_01 44:34

Hmm. What's great about this, James? What's great about this is I mean, I think it's funny, and it also has a lot to do with like going with the flow. I can think of a a situation like it was just a really simple experience that I had on vacation, and I really wanted to go all the right way. And it's literally started downpouring, and we were on like a you know, beach vacation, and we're just in a downpour. We don't have any umbrellas or any rain gear, and I was like, I need to get another pair of shoes because my leather shoes are gonna get ruined. I need an umbrella, right? And I like needed all these things. I guess that's my need for certainty right there popping up. And we go to the store to get all the things. The downpour is like now rain, you know, and I'm walking down the street, James, and I'm realizing I'm the only person holding this umbrella. The rest of my family is holding their umbrella with their umbrella down, not holding their umbrella up. And they were totally dancing in the rain, right? I was feeling the downpour. So I think really it's also about like your perspective, how you see this moment. And that was one of the most beautiful, special, it ended up to be this very magical experience that we had in this music store with my daughter who loves music and guitars, and it turned into this most magical day. So eventually I came around. But to me, that's just like a little vignette of yeah, how do you dance in the downpour? You shift your perspective. What's right about this? What's gorgeous about this is I'm with my family, I'm on vacation. What's amazing is they're dancing. I'm feeling the downpour, like seeing the differences, right?

SPEAKER_04 46:17

So I think the difference between adults and children is that children can be somewhat unfettered with regards to all the stuff that adults have in our head, right? You know, and all the responsibilities. And you know, you see, you see adult, you know, from time to time you'll you'll see an adult like dancing around in the rain, right? And you're like, what is wrong with them? What are they off? And they're just having the time of their life. They're like, I'm not gonna melt, you know. What's a little rain? It's not gonna now the only exception I take to that is if there's thunder and lightning. I'm gonna be in the house hiding under the sofa or the under the recliner because I don't like lightning. But you know, if it's just a gentle rain, you know, and and you know, we adults need to, you know, go back to our childhood and remember, you know, some of the simple pleasures. It's okay to be happy. It's okay, okay to feel joy, and it's okay to just let your hair down and and uh well some of us don't have enough hair to let down, but you know, let your hair down and just have fun. Just be a kid again, right?

SPEAKER_01 47:20

Yeah, childlike wonder, I think, is a big one. Big eyes.

SPEAKER_04 47:27

Yeah. I think one of the as as we we were we've been talking about this, I think about the unexpected downpours. I go back and I think about when we lost our daughter to cancer, you know, she was 10 years old. And uh there was a song, I don't know if it's Tomlinson. I I can't remember the name of the artist, but uh the song had to do with Well Praise You in the Storm, right? You'll praise God even in the storm. And uh I likened the 14 months that we lived through when she got sick, had surgeries and all of that, you know, when we brought her to MUSC Children's Hospital here in Charleston. And I likened that experience to that of a violent thunderstorm that's off in the distance and it's coming closer and closer, right? And uh you know, it was uh it was certainly a storm in our lives, and we certainly I did we certainly and I would say we probably didn't experience a lot of joy, right? But but we did uh get closer to God and our faith was strengthened. Uh and I did a lot of uh I did a lot of bartering with God, you know. I was like, take me, not her. I'm the worm. She's not the worm, I'm the worm, take me, let her live. You know, and uh so anyway, yeah. That was certainly an unexpected storm for us, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 48:49

That's a great point. Um sometimes I don't think it's about necessarily flipping all the way to joy, it's about the process of can we come to peace and equanimity around it? Can I come to some place of peace around this?

SPEAKER_04 49:00

Well, if it wasn't for our faith, who knows what would have happened. So how does a woman's own personal growth impact her family? I can answer that.

SPEAKER_03 49:10

I can answer that.

SPEAKER_04 49:11

If mama ain't happy, nobody's happy.

SPEAKER_01 49:15

I wasn't thinking about it from that standpoint, though that's what my husband would say for sure. Well, you know, I've never read a parenting book. I just keep working on myself.

SPEAKER_04 49:24

I don't think there is one, is there? I don't think there's a parenting book. I mean, there's books out there that try to that attempt to address certain things about parenting, but anyway, go ahead. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 49:36

Yeah. Yeah, because in essence, you know, parenting is a personal process of, you know, I look at all relationships as my teachers, really. And the the challenging teachers, right? The ones who really push my buttons are the ones who are really helping me c sculpt my soul. And if I can, if I can really learn what's great about this in the process and what I'm learning and overcoming, that to me is why I've never read a parenting book. I just keep working on myself. And the more I work on myself, like honestly, the easier parenting is. The more we if we tumble, we stand back up quickly. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 50:20

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 50:22

You're talking about resilience.

SPEAKER_01 50:24

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 50:25

Life knocks you down, you get back up. Try again. Try, try, and try again. Don't ever give up. Perseverance. Our families and our kiddos need that in us. And we need to, that's a resil resiliency and perseverance are two life skills that we need to teach our children, too. You know, they need to know that not everything's easy and that life sucks sometimes, and you gotta suck it up buttercup and and just go with the flow, right?

SPEAKER_01 50:52

Yeah, you learn through it, right?

SPEAKER_04 50:54

Yeah. So why is coaching such an important step for midlife women?

SPEAKER_01 50:59

Well, let's go back, James, to midlife is your second adolescence. Do you think there you go? Do you think you could have used a coach during adolescence?

SPEAKER_02 51:08

No.

SPEAKER_01 51:08

I think that basically says it in a nutshell because there's so many changes. There's hormonal changes, right? Which are, you know, creating not only physiological changes, they're creating emotional shifts and you know, which can be hard to ride those waves. We've got identity shifting, you know. I'm a mom. Wait, am I still a mom? How am I changing as a mom, right? My kids are outside. What if I'm not a doctor, if my career ends, right? And I retire, if I'm no longer a doctor, well, who am I? Right. So all of this identity shifting and possibly, like we talked about, relationship shifting, right? Maybe we're going closer, maybe we're going far apart, maybe we divorce, you know. Um, and so yeah, there's just a lot of shifts and changes. And I think a guide and someone you can have fun with. Like I have fun. We get to we get to make it fun. We laugh, we laugh at how fascinating human behavior is, and we use frameworks to make it neutral. So it's not about us. I'm not broken, I don't need to be fixed. It's just a pattern, right? I've seen this pattern before, and this is how we, you know, see the pattern, use the pattern, and shift into a new pattern. So it's working for us instead of against us, quote unquote.

SPEAKER_04 52:22

Right. So, how do you find or choose a life coach?

SPEAKER_01 52:25

Well, I can share how I've chosen mine, which is really about like following the breadcrumbs, really. You know, you hear someone, you listen to something, you follow like their offerings, you get to know them a little bit, and you really think are have they gone through something that I'm going through? And have they helped others? Do they do I feel safe with them? Really, you want to see like those six human needs again. Like, do I feel safe with them? Is it gonna be fun? We get to have fun in this process, right? Is it sparking some sort of fun and joy? Like all the coaches that I hire and have hired and I'm with now, like we have fun, we laugh and play and have a good time about it. Like that's a big factor for me. You know, I definitely feel safe and supported by them so that I'm able to like air what's really going on for me. And they help me feel seen and heard and understood, and they really help me shift a perspective, give me another way to see the situation. You're thinking of it like this. Well, what if it's really this? Right? And with those type of perspective flips, then I'm really able to grow and move forward and not let those limiting beliefs, you know, trip me up.

SPEAKER_04 53:45

So tell our listening audience how they can connect with you. Do you got a do you have a website or a book or yes?

SPEAKER_01 53:51

A website is dr Sue McCready.com.

SPEAKER_04 53:55

Hold on, I'll bring it up. It's called D okay, D-R Sue.

SPEAKER_01 54:00

Dr. Sue McCready, M-C-C-R-E-A-D-I-E dot com.

unknown 54:06

Dr.

SPEAKER_01 54:06

Sue McCready.com.

SPEAKER_04 54:08

All right, here we go. Hold on, I can share this. Let me share it. Green window. Where are you at? There you are. Share. Yay! There you go. You look like you're very athletic in this picture.

SPEAKER_01 54:24

Sculpting my soul and body. Wow, I've never seen it on a black screen. Like yours is all black.

SPEAKER_04 54:31

Yeah, I my uh I've been I'm an IT professional and I've been I retired from that after 30 years, and my eyes are just like shot.

SPEAKER_01 54:39

Do you put everything on a black background?

SPEAKER_04 54:41

Yeah, I've I've got everything in dark mode. My iPhone, my MacBook, my Dell computer, everything everything that I can get away with it is in dark mode.

SPEAKER_01 54:51

Got it. All right. Now I get to see what it looks like in dark mode.

SPEAKER_04 54:54

All right, so you're used to looking at it like I've got this dark reader module. What in the world? This thing's taking forever. I think Riverside's taxing my CPU on my computer. Here we go. We can do this. Well, I'm waiting for it to respond. It hasn't responded.

SPEAKER_01 55:13

No worries.

SPEAKER_04 55:14

No, it didn't it didn't turn white for some reason. Anyway, okay, I'm gonna turn it back to where it was. Whatever. But yeah, you you know what you need you uh you uh know what it looks like on in uh light mode.

SPEAKER_03 55:27

My poor eyes need a break.

SPEAKER_04 55:29

All right, so this is where is it at? Okay, so www.dr. Sue M C C R E A D I E dot com, and I'll put that in the show notes so the listening audience uh or the viewing audience can find it and see it.

SPEAKER_01 55:46

Awesome, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 55:48

Soulful medicine.

SPEAKER_04 55:50

Soulful medicine. Take the quiz. I ought to take your quiz.

SPEAKER_01 55:55

Go for it, James. Yeah. I'll stop sharing.

SPEAKER_04 55:58

There we go. Well, very good. Dr. Sue, thank you for being here. Uh really enjoyed our conversation. And I I like the fact that we were able to go back and forth and kind of dig into some stuff, get uh below the surface a little bit. That's always fun.

SPEAKER_01 56:13

Yeah, thank you, James. Thanks for having me, and thank you for your mission of spreading this goodness. I appreciate you.

SPEAKER_04 56:20

Absolutely, thank you. So, to the listening off audience, I'll say thanks again to Dr. McCready for joining us today. Parenting Adult Children is a journey, and we're glad to walk in it with you. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with your friends. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Parenting Adult Children 125, and visit our website at parentingadultchildren.org for bonus content, episode updates, and more. And we'll see you next time on ABCs of parenting adult children. Thank you for the privilege of your time. Dr. Steve, thank you for being here. And I come out with a new episode every Friday morning at 8 a.m. So everybody have a wonderful day.

SPEAKER_02 57:02

Bye bye.